I saw more Hellcats yesterday than ZL1 Camaros!

[TobysZL1]

I went and looked at a Challenger the other day cause I was across the street from the dealership, it was a brand new 392 SRT with a pretty paint job. Despite how much horsepower they throw at that thing it doesn't excuse how big of a bloated boat that thing is. I wanna love this car and the hellcat but man due to the bland lines and it's huge size there making it real tough.
People are scooping these things left and right strictly cause of the 707 hp rating. Besides that there is little to no difference in styling to any other Challenger, which would be a deal breaker to me if I was a Dodge Dude. This is just Dodge's new vehicle, wait till the top model 6 Gen comes out. People will be what's a hell Kitty !

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

Not trying to argue as I'm no expert here but...

Wasn't 2012 ZL1 production delayed and orders rolled over to 2013?

Didn't the 2012 Challenger SRT8 have a NA engine and an MSRP that was $10k less than a ZL1?

http://www.challengertalk.com/forums...-2015-a-68401/

Not really apples and apples... No?

In 2013 ZL1 production was 7,956 and GT500 only 4,885

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...uction-numbers

http://www.***********.com/zl1-specs.php

Not sure what your point is? The post I was replying to was about total units over a three year period, not single model years. I find it ridiculous that GM did not up the ante with the ZL1 at some point once the 662 HP Shelby came out. Even a few HP would have been something...

Yes, the SRT8 had an N/A engine but still sold over 11,000 units from 2012 to 2014. The ZL1 sold a little over a 1000 more in that same span. And there are still new ZL1s from all model years on lots.

Not apples to apples if all you are comparing if one had a blower or not but that wasn't the point. And - if you consider the N/A car sold nearly as much in the same 3 year period as the ZL1 that is more like apples to apples.

Is the ZL1 a better car performance-wise? Absolutely! But why doesn't it sell? Why DON'T you see them on the street?

How many '15 ZL1s will be sold vs Hellcats? I would imagine the Hellcat will outsell the ZL1 in the '15 MY.

My point is that GM continues to build good cars but lets them die a slow death due to lack of marketing, no upgrades (and I'm sorry but color changes and putting a color HUD in does not constitute much change or growth) and not listening to the buying public.

I would HOPE GM would take a look at what Dodge did with the Hellcat and build a Camaro at least as sick as that beast. We know that GM can but...

Will it? Who knows? I sure want them to!

[RGRCamaro]

I still have yet to even see a ZL1 on the road! Only 1 parked at a show.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Not sure what your point is? The post I was replying to was about total units over a three year period, not single model years. I find it ridiculous that GM did not up the ante with the ZL1 at some point once the 662 HP Shelby came out. Even a few HP would have been something...

Yes, the SRT8 had an N/A engine but still sold over 11,000 units from 2012 to 2014. The ZL1 sold a little over a 1000 more in that same span. And there are still new ZL1s from all model years on lots.

Not apples to apples if all you are comparing if one had a blower or not but that wasn't the point. And - if you consider the N/A car sold nearly as much in the same 3 year period as the ZL1 that is more like apples to apples.

Is the ZL1 a better car performance-wise? Absolutely! But why doesn't it sell? Why DON'T you see them on the street?

How many '15 ZL1s will be sold vs Hellcats? I would imagine the Hellcat will outsell the ZL1 in the '15 MY.

My point is that GM continues to build good cars but lets them die a slow death due to lack of marketing, no upgrades (and I'm sorry but color changes and putting a color HUD in does not constitute much change or growth) and not listening to the buying public.

I would HOPE GM would take a look at what Dodge did with the Hellcat and build a Camaro at least as sick as that beast. We know that GM can but...

Will it? Who knows? I sure want them to!

I don't know why you compare a SRT8 to a ZL1. At least compare it to a similar Camaro model. The SRT8 would be more in line with the 1LE.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Sven59

I don't know why you compare a SRT8 to a ZL1. At least compare it to a similar Camaro model. The SRT8 would be more in line with the 1LE.

Because the SRT8 was the top dog Challenger right? At least until the Hellcat came along.

The discussion was about sales numbers, not performance ability. The ZL1 will eat an SRT8 or SRT392 alive if we're talking performance, stock vs stock.

But does that mean we shouldn't compare the ZL1 to the '13/'14 GT500 that has about 100 (real) HP difference? Yes, the 'advertised' GT500 HP was 662 but dyno results show that Ford under rated it.

GM rated the ZL1 honestly but both the '13/'14 GT500 and now the Hellcat are very under rated versus actual horsepower.

But we weren't talking HP numbers either - just sales numbers. And like the thread states and everyone can pretty much attest to - ZL1s are hard to find on the street.

I would like that to be different.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Because the SRT8 was the top dog Challenger right? At least until the Hellcat came along.

The discussion was about sales numbers, not performance ability. The ZL1 will eat an SRT8 or SRT392 alive if we're talking performance, stock vs stock.

But does that mean we shouldn't compare the ZL1 to the '13/'14 GT500 that has about 100 (real) HP difference? Yes, the 'advertised' GT500 HP was 662 but dyno results show that Ford under rated it.

GM rated the ZL1 honestly but both the '13/'14 GT500 and now the Hellcat are very under rated versus actual horsepower.

But we weren't talking HP numbers either - just sales numbers. And like the thread states and everyone can pretty much attest to - ZL1s are hard to find on the street.

I would like that to be different.

I am not talking performance but sales also. You are talking different cars with different target groups. The Z28 is actually the to of the line NA Camaro. In order to compare sales you should at least compare like models. And also you should look at production numbers for various levels. Would you then compare a 16 Camaro SS to the fat kitty if in 16 the SS is the highest trim level?

[TobysZL1]

I personally like being the only one or the one of a few with a ZL1 when I'm out and about. It makes it stand out more and people are in more awww of it.
Take are exact car, change the pulley , injectors, intake and a couple other small things right from production. Advertise it at 700 hp and that should even out the sale numbers with these beasts.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[dtwolcot2]

In the year that I have owned mine I have seen 5 other z's. A guy I met at a track that had one and we would meet up at strip, 2 on the road, 2 in parking lots, my dentist. Maybe people dont see them very often cause they aren't looking for them and in traffic they can be looked over and mistakened for another camaro. Have never seen a hellcat and only 2 gt500's so the same could be said about those not being on the street often.

I was at the local BO Jangles (southern fast food joint) where they have a car meet once a month and a guy came up and said it was nice to have a 5th gen there. He said its rare for there to be one. I asked why and he didnt know. Maybe most Camaro owners don't care for car shows or maybe they are all out at the track?

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Sven59

I am not talking performance but sales also. You are talking different cars with different target groups. The Z28 is actually the to of the line NA Camaro. In order to compare sales you should at least compare like models. And also you should look at production numbers for various levels. Would you then compare a 16 Camaro SS to the fat kitty if in 16 the SS is the highest trim level?

Using that logic then should we lump all models together?

Of course not. Different target groups? Hardly. High performance is THE target group, not NA vs Power adders. You definitely do not want to compare the Z/28 sales numbers against anything. Few buyers are shelling out the bucks for a $75k Camaro.

Discard the SRTs if you want but you can't deny they sold nearly as well as Chevy's top Camaro in the same three year period.

And remember, we are comparing total PRODUCTION numbers, not actual sales to the public numbers. Those numbers are probably a little different.

I want the ZL1 to be top dog. And I would also like to see fellow ZL1 owners out on the streets and at the cruises.

But they're not out there. That should change.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Using that logic then should we lump all models together?

Of course not. Different target groups? Hardly. High performance is THE target group, not NA vs Power adders. You definitely do not want to compare the Z/28 sales numbers against anything. Few buyers are shelling out the bucks for a $75k Camaro.

Discard the SRTs if you want but you can't deny they sold nearly as well as Chevy's top Camaro in the same three year period.

And remember, we are comparing total PRODUCTION numbers, not actual sales to the public numbers. Those numbers are probably a little different.

I want the ZL1 to be top dog. And I would also like to see fellow ZL1 owners out on the streets and at the cruises.

But they're not out there. That should change.

Thanks for making my point with the Z28 comment. You just said that the Z28 has a specific target group, even though you said high performance is the target group. Now go back and look at total sales, Camaro just topped or will top 500,000 Gen5s, how is Dodge doing with its Challenger numbers? The best comparison would be like models first full production years sales. 13 was the first full production of the ZL1, compare that to the first full production year of the fat cat and you would be at least somewhat close. In the long run you would be better just comparing base models of the same year. Too many variables for the higher models, NA vs. Non, turbo vs. Supercharger etc. I also don't think that how many of a certain model a person's sees in the wild is a scientific method to compare. I know there are at least 6 or 7 where I live but rarely see any.

[GB73ZL1]

I'm no expert in sales or "exclusive" or "rare" items, however, in the grand scheme of production numbers of the Camaro, the ZL1 model accounts for roughly 3-4% of camaro production for worldwide sales. Therefore, regarding ZL1 sightings, would it be fair to say that one would have a 3% ZL1 sighting for every 100 Camaro sightings? I'm sure there would be some anomalies in certain marketplaces with having more or less available in a certain area.
IMHO, being a ZL1 owner, I don't want to see 500,000 Zl1s tearing up the streets. I'm happy and feel lucky to be one of the 3-4% of owners of this wonderful car.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Thanks for making my point with the Z28 comment. You just said that the Z28 has a specific target group, even though you said high performance is the target group. Now go back and look at total sales, Camaro just topped or will top 500,000 Gen5s, how is Dodge doing with its Challenger numbers? The best comparison would be like models first full production years sales. 13 was the first full production of the ZL1, compare that to the first full production year of the fat cat and you would be at least somewhat close. In the long run you would be better just comparing base models of the same year. Too many variables for the higher models, NA vs. Non, turbo vs. Supercharger etc. I also don't think that how many of a certain model a person's sees in the wild is a scientific method to compare. I know there are at least 6 or 7 where I live but rarely see any.

I never said that the about the Z/28. Re-read my post ok?

And now you are pulling in all the models?

Oh well.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by Raven87

I never said that the about the Z/28. Re-read my post ok?

And now you are pulling in all the models?

Oh well.

Raven87
Of course not. Different target groups? Hardly. High performance is THE target group, not NA vs Power adders. You definitely do not want to compare the Z/28 sales numbers against anything. Few buyers are shelling out the bucks for a $75k Camaro.


Z/28 is not high performance? You proved my point by saying performance is the target group but not to compare the Z/28 to anything because of its price. You threw in your own variable while its just as easy to say you can't compare the SRT vs. the ZL1 because of NA vs. supercharged. Why not compare the Z/28 against the kitty from hell? The Z/28 came out in 14 and the fat cat in 15. Also a lot of people would call the Z/28 the top Camaro, so compare it against the top Challenger. The only fair comparisons in my opinion are similar years and similar trim levels. Compare the 6 cyl. to 6 cyl. or compare similar prices. There are so many ways to do this. Another variant you might not want to compare, the COPO. It is really the top of the line Camaro, but it is not street legal, another variable. There is only one model of Camaro, just like there is only one model of Challenger. In car reviews they try to compare cars of similar trim level. I just don't feel it is an honest comparison of the ZL1 to a SRT. Too many differences, NA vs. boosted, MRC vs. ?, price?,

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Because the SRT8 was the top dog Challenger right? At least until the Hellcat came along.

The discussion was about sales numbers, not performance ability. The ZL1 will eat an SRT8 or SRT392 alive if we're talking performance, stock vs stock.

But does that mean we shouldn't compare the ZL1 to the '13/'14 GT500 that has about 100 (real) HP difference? Yes, the 'advertised' GT500 HP was 662 but dyno results show that Ford under rated it.

GM rated the ZL1 honestly but both the '13/'14 GT500 and now the Hellcat are very under rated versus actual horsepower.

But we weren't talking HP numbers either - just sales numbers. And like the thread states and everyone can pretty much attest to - ZL1s are hard to find on the street.

I would like that to be different.

I don't get it neither because shouldn't the lower costing car Sell more ? We should compare the 2010 Camaro SS to the 2010 GT500 in numbers sold and produced because the SS sold more I bet.