1le suspension upgrade or hotchkis track pack???

[Dan@Hotchkis]

Our kit is designed as a balanced package that has proven to out perform many packages and is well beyond the 1LE package. We've spent the last 5 years developing this package and all the parts are built here in the USA, and come with our lifetime guarantee. If you have any issues with installation or performance tuning, you have one company to call, not several to ensure parts compatibility.

[BMR Sales]

Dang, Tyler is on Fire!

[enrayged]

Tyler, send to me as well please

[So Cal Camaro]

JDP Motorsports are the guys to buy from...Tyler is a good guy and damn fast on the autocross with his sleeper....LOL

[Minoclan]

I have been very satisfied with my Hotchkis products. These are all good guys.

[Fast6.3]

can you send me a pm of that package also

[JusticePete]

Hmmm, none of the above, except you can get the JPSS Z/28 Light Package from Tyler!

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...69#post8435169

Z/28 Light Susspension Upgrade
This thread is under construction and will be finished... SOON!

"So I just took her to the local xxxxxx that has a nice little paved oval (parking lot) out front and did some hairpin turns. O.....M.....G Holy Shit does it turn. Better now on cold tires than before on hot tires!!!!!" according to Bill. We'll hear more from Bill after his day at Watkins Glen.

Bill Hurd likes to run his 1LE at Watkins Glen International. For road course use his most valuable modification to date has been his StopTech brake upgrade. The next step is to improve his grip. We are approaching that in several ways.

First we are upgrading to Z/28 springs. The rates are much higher. They are very similar to the set we had been using for years on coilovers. Nick Grossman has retail kit #1. He and his wife Melanie drove their Z/28 light Camaro from Virginia to Indiana and loved the changes.

The dampers are not a perfect match to the coil, but they work quite well. Too bad the rear Z/28 coil is 3/4 of an inch too short to fit on a 1LE rear strut. That would stop most companies or shops, but not JPSS. At JPSS we don't let little things like that get in the way of a great upgrade. We use a little 'Black Magic' and make it work.

Up front we'll be installing Black Magic Caster Lock for a gain of 1 degree. We'll also install Billet Bushings in the radius rod to reduce dynamic caster changes. Up top we'll instal Knock Out Camber plates. We should really call them SAI plates. Adding Steering Axis Inclination improves straight line stability and the return to center after a turn. You cannot imagine how sweet it is to drive with increased caster and SAI.

We'll be swapping out the 1LE front 27mm sway bar and installing the almost 24mm SS front bar. We'll add our OE Quiet HD High Efficiency Endlinks to the new SS bar. This will allow the 1LE to rotate more. It isn't snap oversteer. We like to call it aggressive rotation. As they say in the movies, loose is fast.

On the alignment rack we'll be aggressive road course.

Front Camber -2.50
Front Toe OUT 0.50
Rear Camber -1.25
Rear Toe IN 0.12

Z/28 Light Parts List
1LE Struts
Z/28 Coils
JPSS Billet Radius Arm Bushings
JPSS Caster Locks

JPSS ships the kit fully assembled using your old mounts and hardware. We turn around the kits in 72 hours or less. We can also build a kit from scratch, but the new mounts, insulators, etc... are expensive.


Always a tough moment for a proud owner. Bill I'll need your keys...


No problem Bill. We can build yours just like this. We'll not just like this. Yours will be better. Every time we build one we learn something along the way.

Peter Gray, once we finish Bill's we'll update yours


Wheels off, here we go


LR strut out.


LR strut pocket, no more noise with the increased clearance.


This puppy coil is going away... soon.


Two out.


Struts burst.


LF out.


Cut here...


RF out


Coils and mounts are going to the dumpster.


Looks a little empty.


Nice brakes.


Z/28 Light coming....


SOON!


JPSS Knockout Camber Plates - 2 Degrees of adjustment, Bolt in never slip, never drift security, bet-of-the-best Bearings Made in Martinsville.

http://www.jpssonline.com/shop/jpss-...-camber-plates


This is a full race camber plate install so we have clearnced the strut tower.


We have the plates lined up and the holes drilled.



Z/28 coil, 1LE strut, JPSS Knockout Camber Plate - WINNING!

So the Z/28 Rear Coil is 3/4" shorter than the 1LE coil. How does JPSS make it fit?


Billet Bushings - IN. Caster slots ground and ready for Caster Locks


This will work.


Uh, no...





Z/28 coils + JPSS OE Quiet HD Endlinks + 1LE Struts = Z/28 Light

Tower Two is Done!




This will work.


We need to charge more...


Too


much


fabrication


work!




Z/28 Light Alignment Time.


Getting closer...


Not bad at all.


Tongue lock, no problem...


Forgot your keys. No problem.

JPSS Z/28 Light Packages

"So I just took her to the local xxxxxx that has a nice little paved oval (parking lot) out front and did some hairpin turns. O.....M.....G Holy Shit does it turn. Better now on cold tires than before on hot tires!!!!!" according to Bill Hurd.

That is what you can expect when you upgrade to Z/28 Light. Z/28 Light uses the higher rate Z/28 coil springs with the 1LE front and rear struts. The 1LE struts are not a perfect match to the coil, but they work quite well. Too bad the rear Z/28 coil is 3/4 of an inch too short to fit on a 1LE rear strut. That would stop most companies or shops, but not JPSS. At JPSS we don't let little things like that get in the way of a great upgrade. We use a little 'Black Magic' and make it work.

Up front we add Black Magic Caster Locks for a gain of 1 degree. Increasing caster improves the return to center in steering along with straight line stability. We add Billet Bushings in the radius arm to reduce dynamic caster changes. This improves on center steering feel. Combined, it feels like a racing rack has been installed.

With the 1LE, we replace the front 27mm sway bar and with a 25mm ZL1 front bar. With the V6 and SS we replace the rear sway bar with the 1LE 28mm sway bar. On the 2010 and 2011 models, we upgrade the rear lower control arms and replace the endlinks for the new out board mounting rear sway bar. We add our OE Quiet HD High Efficiency Endlinks to the front sway bar. This will allow Camaro to rotate more easily. It isn't snap oversteer. We like to call it aggressive rotation. As they say in the movies, loose is fast.

Road Course / Autocross Alignment

Front Camber -2.50
Front Toe OUT 0.50
Rear Camber -1.25
Rear Toe IN 0.12

1LE and ZL1 Camaros use Package 1. Ship your assembled struts to JPSS and we'll return your struts as Z/28 Light struts fully assembled ready to install along with the additional JPSS parts in the package. We'll ship your fully assembled all new Z/28 Light kit ready to install in three to five business days.

2010 to 2011 V6 and V8 Camaros use Package 2. Ship your assembled struts to JPSS and we'll return your struts as Z/28 Light struts fully assembled ready to install along with the additional JPSS parts in the package. We'll ship your fully assembled all new Z/28 Light kit ready to install in three to five business days.

All model years (except the ZL1) Complete Kit with all new mounting hardware use Package 3 or 4. Package 3 has the upgraded rear lower control arms, rear sway bar and drop links, required for the 2010 and 2011. Package 4 has a 28mm rear sway bar. for all models except the 1LE and ZL1. We'll ship your fully assembled all new Z/28 Light kit ready to install in three to five business days.

Z/28 Light Packages from 1,099.00

The Z/28 Light Package includes:

GM Z/28 Front Coils
GM Z/28 Rear Coils
GM Rear SS Sway Bar
JPSS Billet Radius Arm Bushings
JPSS Black Magic Caster Locks
JPPS Black Magic Modifications

The V6 and SS Package Additionally Includes:

Front Struts
Rear Struts

Complete Packages Include:

Z/28 Front Coils
Z/28 Rear Coils
GM Rear 1LE Sway Bar
JPSS Billet Radius Arm Bushings
JPSSBlack Magic Caster Locks
JPSS Black Magic Modifications
GM Front Strut Bumpstop
GM Front Strut Boot
GM Front Coil Insulator, Lower
GM Front Strut Upper Mount Kit
GM Front Strut Mount Washer
GM Front Strut Jam Nut
GM Rear Upper Insulator
GM Rear Strut Middle Washer
GM Rear Bumpstop
GM Rear Upper Spring Insulator
GM Rear Lower Strut Washer
GM Rear Strut Mount Plate, Left
GM Rear Strut Mount Plate, Right
GM Rear Strut Top Nut

The 2010-2011 Package Additionally Includes:

GM Rear Lower Control Arms
GM Drop Links

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Dan@Hotchkis

Our kit is designed as a balanced package that has proven to out perform many packages and is well beyond the 1LE package. We've spent the last 5 years developing this package and all the parts are built here in the USA, and come with our lifetime guarantee. If you have any issues with installation or performance tuning, you have one company to call, not several to ensure parts compatibility.

What metrics do you use to support the claim that your pacakge is "well beyond the 1LE"?

I'm interested in upgrading my SS suspension & any objective data would help me choose what to purchase.

Thanks

[backeddy]

What metrics do you use to support the claim that your pacakge is "well beyond the 1LE"?

Get out the popcorn, the sharks smell blood in the water..........................

[backeddy]

let me just leave this here, this is a quote from X25 who probably tracks as much as i do and this is what he had to say about the full z28 package:

I bought mine from Pace Performance. It was delivered fairly quickly. I'm happy with its performance, but I have to say 1LE suspension was also very very good at the track, probably better than most coilover packages out there that didn't have the luxury of getting tuned by excellent GM suspension engineers.

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by backeddy

let me just leave this here, this is a quote from X25 who probably tracks as much as i do and this is what he had to say about the full z28 package:

Very true. I have a bad auto cross day a guy in a stock 1le can beat me

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by charlyhtx

I'm looking at upgrading the suspension on my car. It's a 2014 ss auto. What would be the better option between the hotchkis track pack with the subframe connectors or the stock 1le package? Both are roughly the same price

And....

[Hilflos]

As one of the folks who chimed in after the OP, asking the same question, I went with the 1LE as it was the most time efficient option.

Primary considerations were amount of time the car would be offline, as it is my daily driver, and my personal inexperience doing suspension work. It is not something I have done frequently enough to be confident regarding. Doing it as quickly as would be necessary, as it would be a learning experience, wasn't realistic.

If there were an independent shop, locally, that I had any familiarity or relationship with, that probably would have changed the end decision also.

I toyed with the idea of taking some vacation and bothering one of you (JPSS, JDP, et al.) in person, but it's a busy time of year at work, and that wasn't realistic in the time frame I was working with.

The dealership I bought the car through was eager to do the work, and wound up being significantly less expensive that some others in the region. I dropped the car off in the morning, and it was ready to go that evening.

That was on the 8th. Since then it has been unscheduled monsoon season locally, and there hasn't been much chance to really explore the improvement, though most of my issues were noticeably improved just in the daily use. This morning though, it was beautiful out, and I got a chance to do some more thorough testing.

It is difficult for me to describe my experiences, succinctly. Obviously less body roll, better damping, more in contact, and better connected are hard to quantify in any meaningful way to those not experiencing the before and after with me.

Let me put it this way, with the stock SS suspension, my feeling was that the power was there, the handling wasn't. It was sort of like 65% of where I thought the car should be for the power it has. It was out of balance, for lack of a better way of describing it.

With the 1LE suspension in, much better balance, and my issue areas went from, "everything" to a few select areas. The need for rear subframe connection improvement has become obvious, where before it was there, but less noticeable due to the, "sloppiness" (too strong a term) inherent in the stock setup. It's not constantly obvious, but, yeah definitely present when I would rather it not be.

Definitely felt like the tires / wheels were a weak point to address now also.

Steering, first car with electric power steering, I'm still trying to decide if what I'm feeling, or not as the case may be, is a result of that, or the radius rod bushings I have read could stand to be improved upon.

So, now that I've addressed the broad strokes issues, my plan going forward is;

• Square setup (probably 10" wide wheels)
• Subframe bushings (probably BMR)
• Radius rod bushings / inserts (likely JPSS)

Things I'm still debating / educating myself on;

• Rear trailing arms
• Rear upper control arm bushings
• Front lower control arm bushings
• Lowering

I have read, that the first two items there will help with wheel hop, but haven't experienced that in this car yet, but haven't had it on a track, drag or road course, yet either. The last two are in my "list of things to consider" I put together when trying to educate myself about 5th gen suspension over the last couple months.

Regarding lowering, I'm under the impression, Z/28 springs, ala the "Z/28 Light" black magic, will lower the car slightly, and then there's the knuckle drop which may be an option in the not too distant future. Outside of these, lowering springs in particular, I'm not sure on. There seems to be a wide range of opinions on the subject.

There's also an element of just how much improvement do I really need? For at least the first year of the car's life it's going to be a daily driver. Track time will come when the opportunity permits. Even at the point it's not a daily driver, it will be driven frequently.

My approach to this process of suspension improvement is not the most economical one possible, granted. I don't doubt I'll have some, in hindsight I would have done X differently, moments.

Do want to thank everyone for the information they've made available. It makes the decision making easier than it otherwise would be.