2014 1le ls7 cam, ported heads, long tubes.

[Pushrod Pete]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

I think it takes a lot more than 20 additional HP to make a noticeable performance enhancement in a 426 HP car that weighs about 3800 lbs. Just my opinion of course.

I've been conflicted with this dilemma lately, and asking myself whether it would be worth to modify this car. I'd love to invest ~$4,000 on headers/cam/heads for my 1LE and try to maximize the performance for street fun and road course, but then I got to thinking that if i was going to spend that exorbitant amount of money on mods, wouldn't it be wiser to instead invest in a better platform to build onto like a low-mileage c6 z06? I hate being so damn ambivalent.

I guess that's part of the fun, right? Building your car to overcome its limitations.

[Joseph1LE]

Originally Posted by Pushrod Pete

I've been conflicted with this dilemma lately, and asking myself whether it would be worth to modify this car. I'd love to invest ~$4,000 on headers/cam/heads for my 1LE and try to maximize the performance for street fun and road course, but then I got to thinking that if i was going to spend that exorbitant amount of money on mods, wouldn't it be wiser to instead invest in a better platform to build onto like a low-mileage c6 z06? I hate being so damn ambivalent.

I guess that's part of the fun, right? Building your car to overcome its limitations.

Research the LS7 woes before you go that route. I almost bought one, as the earlier 06-09 ones are going used now for about the same as a new 1LE Camaro. I actually preferred one over the 5th gen. But I do not want to have to worry about bad valve guides and dropping exhaust valves on a pre-owned car that's out of warranty. I also felt it would be ridiculous to buy it and have to immediately pull the heads and send them to the machine shop to eliminate this risk. I searched around for one with the head work already taken care of, but couldn't find anything. If you plan on doing head work anyways for power gain then it doesn't matter. But I wasn't wanting to do that anytime soon. So I opted for a 5th gen. Feel free to check out Corvette forum, ls1tech, ect. The issues with the LS7 are well known and widespread, thought there hasn't been much going on in regards to it in recent years so perhaps GM fixed it at some point. As much as I love the sound of "427", I think the LS3 is a more reliable engine from the factory.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Pushrod Pete

I've been conflicted with this dilemma lately, and asking myself whether it would be worth to modify this car. I'd love to invest ~$4,000 on headers/cam/heads for my 1LE and try to maximize the performance for street fun and road course, but then I got to thinking that if i was going to spend that exorbitant amount of money on mods, wouldn't it be wiser to instead invest in a better platform to build onto like a low-mileage c6 z06? I hate being so damn ambivalent.

It depends. If you're one of those guys who always wanted a Corvette to begin with. You're better off starting with a Corvette. However if you're one of those guys who wanted to build the best Camaro he could build, that money is better spent on the 1LE

[Sapper12b]

Regardless, with those modifications, its your money and your car. Im interseted in the final results. Too many people get caught up following to norm/flow and its interesting to see someone else take a different path to attain similar goals. Keep us posted in your results.

[Bodywerks]

Originally Posted by 1sick_eg

Also, if there is a guy claiming to have made 527whp with a 376 with heads and a ls7 cam, he is a liar, or has put the car on a serious number fudging dyno.

The guy is running PRC255 heads and TSP 235/239 cam. Oh, and 102mm TB and 102mm FAST intake. The intake probably got him past the 500rwhp mark, but tq suffered, only 440rwtq.

[Bodywerks]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

I said what I said and I mean it. What did you pay for the intake and the headers? You just claimed that gained 20/20 which I assume is 20 HP and 20 ft-lb torque. What did it do to your lap times / ET's? Was that bill about $1000? Maybe it is less. I am asking and not trying to be sarcastic, just trying to make a point. A gain of 20 HP and 20 ft-lb is not HUGE. It is not worth even getting out my tools for. If you are happy with it, thats great, and I appreciate your honesty (not claiming 50 HP from a CAI and headers). What did you gain from the heads and cam? What did you gain from the tune? I think we just have two different definitions for the value of HP.

What I would love to see, and I doubt it will be done (except maybe by me once my warranty is gone) is home much HP can be gained by a tune only on a stock LS3, and then how much more was gained with the addition of the CAI and the headers.

Sorry I sounded so sarcastic in that last post. Long day...
Tune only has been done several times. It is good for an honest 15/15 gain, maybe slightly better. Yes, it is the best cost/hp ratio you can get, just about.
As you can see in my signature, after tune(which IMO should just plane be standard practice after headers), My total gain over stock(which averages about 375/375)after intake, headers, and tune was just short of 50hp and 50tq.
I went Kooks so my cost is up there, but it's still only about $2k including tune. That's $40/hp which really is a bargain, considering a cam and springs only is about the same price after factoring in all the supporting parts for that job, the labor cost, since 3/4 of people that do a cam pay someone else to do it. Cam and springs only is typically only good for 50-75hp and less torque gains, like 15-30tq.
Now, those gains will almost definitely assume that intake and headers were already installed, because pretty much NOBODY adds a cam without first adding components that will allow the cam to do its job.
But, just to assume, lets say somebody was crazy enough to install a cam before headers and intake. What do you think the gains would be? Still the 50-75hp? I highly doubt it, since the engine is starving for air. I'd say it'd be more like 25-40hp and 20-30tq.
So you just tore out your radiator, water pump, oil pump, valve covers, etc., etc., etc., and spent 10 hours(assuming you've done a few before) or over $1,000 in labor, to gain the same or less horsepower that an intake and headers would have netted you.
To each his own, but if I were to only be able to afford one or the other, I'd choose intake and headers every day and three times on Sunday. They are straight bolt on options, and it took me about 5 hours total to install my intake, headers, AND full exhaust.

[Bodywerks]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

I will probably be PMing you. Your numbers support the point that I was trying to make earlier. If we go middle of the road on the pipes (say $700) and throw in $300 for a CAI of your choice, you have just spent $1000 for about 20 HP. The tune, which you say will net about the same HP, is half as much. Yes, plan A is more warrenty friendly than the plan B. $1000 just seems like a hell of a lot of money to spend for 20 hp. I think it takes a lot more than 20 additional HP to make a noticeable performance enhancement in a 426 HP car that weighs about 3800 lbs. Just my opinion of course.

You definitely have to justify the cost, and I can tell you that 20hp is noticeable, if you were wanting to try just a tune or are only looking for 20 more ponies.
It all comes down to what your are looking for and how much it is worth it to you. The higher your HP goals are the higher the cost/hp ratio goes up.

To put it into perspective, my goal is 500ish rwhp and 450ish rwtq. To even dream of achieving this, reliably(which means adding other parts that don't necessarily add hp), It's going to take the intake, headers, aftermarket heads, the right cam, and a good tuner. Not counting labor(because I'm doing it on my own), I'm looking at about $6,000 when it's all said and done.
So to gain(hopefully) 125hp over stock is going to cost about $50/hp.
It's worth it to me.
Now, I could have thrown in another $2-3k and gained a total of about 250hp and dropped the cost/hp ratio down to about $35/hp, but I'm not a real forced induction fan...

[SoFlo Muscle Cars]

Originally Posted by Bodywerks

The guy is running PRC255 heads and TSP 235/239 cam. Oh, and 102mm TB and 102mm FAST intake. The intake probably got him past the 500rwhp mark, but tq suffered, only 440rwtq.

I'm the guy who some of you are referring with reference to 527rwhp and the TQ is 452. I was at 508-510 with cam and heads and supporting mods. We added a Nicky Williams TB and a fast intake best combo if using the fast intake. There is a big differance between a Vmax 102 TB and the Nicky Williams TB.
Also by no stretch of the imagination was the mustang Dyno a happy Dyno as some of you have said LOL. All my work was done in south Florida by Lasway Motorsports. The heat and humidity 102 deg on last Dyno pull so may even left a few RWHP on the table...but who cares not me. Give the OP a break he was not making any claims was just stating what his plans are. There are so many armchair mechanics who claim to know everything and just basically rip people apart and make them feel like a jerk.., that's why a lot of people on here never post. It seems a lot of people do not read posts correctly before commenting. I don't know also were you are getting the 440tq from. I made 442tq with cam only. Added another 16 after heads, TB, intake and U/P. These number have already been questioned, so I sure more will do so LMAO
Op good luck with your mods, I'm sure you will be happy with the results

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by SoFlo Muscle Cars

I'm the guy who some of you are referring with reference to 527rwhp and the TQ is 558. I was at 508-510 with cam and heads and supporting mods. We added a Nicky Williams TB and a fast intake best combo if using the fast intake. There is a big differance between a Vmax 102 TB and the Nicky Williams TB.
Also by no stretch of the imagination was the mustang Dyno a happy Dyno as some of you have said LOL. All my work was done in south Florida by Lasway Motorsports. The heat and humidity 102 deg on last Dyno pull so may even left a few RWHP on the table...but who cares not me. Give the OP a break he was not making any claims was just stating what his plans are. There are so many armchair mechanics who claim to know everything and just basically rip people apart and make them feel like a jerk.., that's why a lot of people on here never post. It seems a lot of people do not read posts correctly before commenting. I don't know also were you are getting the 440tq from. I made 442tq with cam only. Added another 16 after heads, TB, intake and U/P. These number have already been questioned, so I sure more will do so LMAO
Op good luck with your mods, I'm sure you will be happy with the results

Here, here...

[1sick_eg]

You're claiming 527whp/552wtq isn't a happy dyno? You have the highest torque out of any ls3 I've seen by a large margin. You've got a nice build looking at the parts quoted, but there's no way a cam that size with heads is making over 500wtq.

Ask any tuner and engine builder. I still question my own numbers I've put up. Not because it doesn't run well, but because even 504wtq is unheard of.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Bodywerks]

Originally Posted by 1sick_eg

You're claiming 527whp/552wtq isn't a happy dyno? You have the highest torque out of any ls3 I've seen by a large margin. You've got a nice build looking at the parts quoted, but there's no way a cam that size with heads is making over 500wtq.

Ask any tuner and engine builder. I still question my own numbers I've put up. Not because it doesn't run well, but because even 504wtq is unheard of.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I think he is making 440ish tq. where did you see his numbers?

[1sick_eg]

If you have a 416+ ls3, I might believe the results, but with a 376, it just isn't happening.

If you truly are making 550wtq....you better start pushing parts for tsp/prc and getting paid for it.

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[Bodywerks]

Oh, just read his post again. First, Soflo muscle cars was NOT the guy I was referring to, it was Sps http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412924
And second, I am 100% with you 1sick. That claim of 558 rwtq is out of the realm of possibility unless , like you said, maybe on a 416 stroker.

[1sick_eg]

I believe it is the same guy judging from his posts. I don't think his hp number is much out of range for his build, but the torque claim of 550wtq is just extremely high.