08-05-2015, 10:00 AM | #99 | |
Drives: Silverado Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 102
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At this point, the GT350 matters and the GT500 really doesn't. That's why I'm looking forward to 16 SS performance. The 1LE may beat it, even though Al said otherwise. I'm confident that the GT350 will beat the 16 SS, certainly in R form(which would be a SICK statement for Camaro SS and the Alpha platform)... so maybe we'll see a new 1LE or Z/28... or even ZL1 sooner rather than later. |
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08-05-2015, 12:12 PM | #100 | |
Drives: 2013 camaro 1ss 1le Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Long Island,ny
Posts: 224
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08-05-2015, 01:07 PM | #101 |
Drives: Fastest 2010 Camaro V6 Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newcastle, OK
Posts: 3,571
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Motortrend did laps in both the GT500 and ZL1, the GT500 was faster even with its SRA. Guess Randy Pobst times don't count though, only GM propaganda.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...a_raceway.html |
08-05-2015, 01:28 PM | #102 | |
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"While the Mustang was a half-second faster around the track than the ZL1 on its best lap, it couldn't repeat the performance. By the end of the first lap, the brakes had already begun to heat up so badly, we could smell them from the pits as the car passed by on the front straight. By the end of the second lap, the Shelby had lost more than half of its advantage over the ZL1, turning a 1:39.03. By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30. The ZL1, meanwhile, never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second." "So, yes, the Mustang turned a faster lap, but if it's not repeatable, is it really a win? Find a 2.23-mile autocross and you might have something, but in any road race, the Mustang is going to quickly fall behind." By the third lap the Camaro was in front for good. How about Road&Track's test at Grattan Raceway? ZL1: 1:27.91 GT500: 1:28.53 "Repeated braking into Turn 1 was a big test for the Brembos on both cars, and only once was there panic from a soft pedal. That pedal belonged to the GT500, which ended its timed lapping session after seven hot laps. The ZL1's brakes never faltered and in conjunction with the MR suspension provided superior confidence in decreasing-radius brake zones. The GT500 kept wanting to swing its tail out, causing a bit of trepidation and decreased speed." How about the full body of work? Streets of Willow (1.6 miles) 1LE 1:22.70 GT500 1:23.48 Grattan (2.0 miles) ZL1 1:27.95 GT500 1:28.53 GingerMan (2.2 miles) Z/28 1:41.80 ZL1 1:42.05 GT500 1:45.21 Laguna Seca (2.2 miles) Z/28 1:37.82 GT500 1:38.70 ZL1 1:39.18 Sachsenring (2.3 miles) Z/28 1:35.20 ZL1 1:38.13 GT500 1:38.26 Milford (2.9 miles) Z/28 1:53.71 ZL1 1:56.58 1LE 1:58.85 Boss 302 LS 1:59.05 GT500 1:59.97 VIR (4.2 miles) Z/28 2:50.9 ZL1 2:52.38 1LE 2:58.34 GT500 3:00.60 Nurburgring ZL1 7:41.27 GT500 0:00.00 So the GT500 posted one good lap time one one track (Laguna Seca) then quickly fell behind by the third lap. The ZL1 is faster around every other track tested.
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2012 - Present: 2011 CTS-V Sedan, A6, Airaid, Zmax TB and Tune by R.P.M. = 535 hp/503 lb-ft.
2009 - 2012: 2010 2SS RS IBM M6, MGW Shifter, BMR Trailing Arms/Tunnel Brace, Roto-Fab CAI, VMAX Ported TB, Kooks 6511-Complete (Headers, X-Pipe, Mufflers), dyno tuned by R.P.M. = 415 hp/412 lb-ft. "Not giving a f*^k is truly the greatest luxury, and no luxury car gives fewer f*^k's than a CTS-V." - Matt Hardigree |
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08-05-2015, 02:10 PM | #103 |
Drives: Fastest 2010 Camaro V6 Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newcastle, OK
Posts: 3,571
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The GT500 would have built up a 0.64 second lead, it would then take the ZL1 over 5 laps before it catches the GT500, and that is if the engine doesn't pull power from the heat.
I posted the test that was on the same day, same track, same driver. If you don't understand the significance, zero point in even replying to this thread. |
08-05-2015, 02:19 PM | #104 | |
Drives: 2013 camaro 1ss 1le Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Long Island,ny
Posts: 224
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08-05-2015, 02:21 PM | #105 | |
Drives: 2013 camaro 1ss 1le Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Long Island,ny
Posts: 224
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08-05-2015, 02:59 PM | #106 |
Drives: Rally Yellow Camaro+Avalanche Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,110
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No, the ZL1 would not need 5 laps to catch up to the GT500 cause the Mustang would be in the pits after its first hot lap trying to cool down its brakes.
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447 HP @ 6180 RPM / 418 TQ @ 5100 RPM |
08-05-2015, 03:27 PM | #107 | |
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"By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30" Convenient you omit the other same day head-to-head comparisons: Road&Track at Grattan Raceway ZL1: 1:27.91 GT500: 1:28.53 http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...et-camaro-zl1/ Car&Driver at VIR ZL1 2:57.50 GT500 3:00.60 http://www.caranddriver.com/features...t-laps-feature
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2012 - Present: 2011 CTS-V Sedan, A6, Airaid, Zmax TB and Tune by R.P.M. = 535 hp/503 lb-ft.
2009 - 2012: 2010 2SS RS IBM M6, MGW Shifter, BMR Trailing Arms/Tunnel Brace, Roto-Fab CAI, VMAX Ported TB, Kooks 6511-Complete (Headers, X-Pipe, Mufflers), dyno tuned by R.P.M. = 415 hp/412 lb-ft. "Not giving a f*^k is truly the greatest luxury, and no luxury car gives fewer f*^k's than a CTS-V." - Matt Hardigree |
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08-05-2015, 05:05 PM | #108 | ||
Drives: Fastest 2010 Camaro V6 Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newcastle, OK
Posts: 3,571
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This is hilarious though, you guys use the wikipedia of lap times that anybody can edit. No wonder Camaro owners are laughed at so hard at the track. I see you didn't mention Nordschleife, which according to your wikipedia the GT500 runs 7:39.28 to the ZL1 7:41.27. Surely the "Brake fade" would have taken affect midway through the course and the ZL1 would have been a lot faster... But hey, gotta cherry pick the results. Best laugh is how you refer to a website that has the 2011 Mustang V6 running 1:29.09 but the 2013 Mustang GT500 runs 1:27.30 on Willow Springs, a car that has over twice the power, bigger tires, bigger brakes, better suspension package. Difference? Randy Pobst vs Edmunds. Just like how Car and Driver takes a 2013 Mustang 5.0 and runs 13.0, but Motortrend runs a 12.7. Or how they run the 2011 Mustang V6 at 13.7 but other magazines run 14.2-14.4. For some reason different drivers get different results with cars.... or just MAYBE a live axle car requires more skill to drive instead of having a computer baby you. Quote:
Better go quick to that website and do some more editing. 1LE owners are so fun, they think they have the best car in the world then cry when they get their ass handed to them by a Mustang V6. |
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08-05-2015, 07:45 PM | #109 | |
145lb Powerlifter
Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS RS LS3 Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Conshohocken, PA
Posts: 1,146
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I guess this is what's happened when Ford has created the ultimate "entry level muscle car." It's always the cheapest, and because of it, you get a lot of high schoolers. If you cannot have a mature conversation and actually debate intelligently, why are you here? Are you so bored in your life that this is how you boost your self esteem? Let's actually debate facts and numbers, not see who swings hardest from a manufacturer's nuts. It's not impressive to have your mind bought and paid for by a manufacturer that doesn't even know you exist. A little bit of objectivity goes a long way. If not, I'll point you to a Prelude forum you can spend your time at.
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08-05-2015, 08:20 PM | #110 |
Iron fist, lead foot
Drives: 2003 Mustang Cobra Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wyoming
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So basically... For the ZL1 to post very good times in the 1/4, change tires. Easy change.
For the GT500 to run very good times on a road course, change brake fluid. Easy change. Seems they both excel in the areas that were designed to do so in...and need a very simple change to do very well in the others' arena. Fair enough?
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08-05-2015, 09:08 PM | #111 |
145lb Powerlifter
Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS RS LS3 Join Date: Jan 2014
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The GT500 and ZL1 at the time were geared for very different crowds. The GT500 was built for straight line performance. Handling was an afterthought.
The ZL1 was built for balance. It was built for straight line performance and handling. As a result, the ZL1 due to its much heavier suspension and less violent powerband was not as fast in a straight line. However, with modifications, thanks to the extremely stout drivetrain of the ZL1 and much more affordable-to-mod LS3 motor, the ZL1 with little effort could run with the GT500 in a straight line. Straight line speed is easily achievable - power vs weight vs gearing vs traction. The GT500, on the other hand, is too limited to become a machine that can "turn" with the ZL1. Between the two, the ZL1 is a far more capable car overall. A ZL1 can be turned into a GT500, but a GT500 could never run with a ZL1 because the GT500's problem is the entire chassis of the vehicle. The GT500 was, overall, the inferior machine. The GT350R is so exciting because Ford is finally building a machine that can turn and set some good track times. Looks-wise, it is gorgeous in my opinion, but looks are entirely subjective. It also sounds sick, but again, subjective. I will be watching this car like a hawk when official times are posted because I think Ford FINALLY knocked it out of the park, and I for one am rooting for them. They made it too easy for GM to run away with market share on the 5th Gen, as shown by the Camaro sales routinely trouncing Mustang sales for half a decade. Now, we may have a real answer, and I respect the guts it took to design a flat plane crank motor like that. GM never does things radical like that. They don't have the guts. Maybe this will motivate them to grow a pair and do something extreme instead of just repackaging the same slightly de-tuned Corvette hand-me-down's.
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08-05-2015, 09:45 PM | #112 | |
Drives: 2013 camaro 1ss 1le Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Long Island,ny
Posts: 224
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