Shelby GT350R faster than Z/28?

[oldfriend]

[QUOTE=MagnumForceGB;8572444]I agree, those are the REAL numbers, except there is no lap 4, so you don't know what it really is. Lap 2 lost 0.31 seconds, lap 3 lost 0.27 seconds, lap 4 could either be 0.21 or 0.15 seconds, lap 5 could have finally been where the bleeding finally stopped. The GT500 isn't going to go 0.3 seconds slower each lap, the numbers will get smaller until a point.


Well , and if there was a lap 4 and it's time , one could have asked for lap 5 ,,6,,7 etc
That's not a good way to make any argument

[Jpnyhc1le]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

From a design standpoint however, Mustang's ILIRS is much more akin to that of an M5's rather than Camaro's traditional multi-link setup.

I wasnt saying that they copied camaros design or anything just saying the camaro had irs then mustang came out with irs which was smart cause the camaros have been whoopin the stangs around the track

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Jpnyhc1le

I wasnt saying that they copied camaros design or anything just saying the camaro had irs then mustang came out with irs which was smart cause the camaros have been whoopin the stangs around the track

Well to be accurate Ford introduced the IRS to the segment with the (flawed) IRS in the Terminator Cobras in 03 and 04.

[Jpnyhc1le]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Well to be accurate Ford introduced the IRS to the segment with the (flawed) IRS in the Terminator Cobras in 03 and 04.

Yea flawed is an understatement

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Well to be accurate Ford introduced the IRS to the segment with the (flawed) IRS in the Terminator Cobras in 03 and 04.

Accurate is 1999. That's when the Cobra first had IRS.

[Jpnyhc1le]

Hey anybody what the curb weight will be of the gt350? The numbers have been all over from 3550 to 3850.

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by Jpnyhc1le

Hey anybody what the curb weight will be of the gt350? The numbers have been all over from 3550 to 3850.

Unknown at this time. However, if the GT350R has been noted as weighing 3650 with a full tank of gas, you can imagine the base GT350 will beslightly heavier.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by rontammy0

There isn't much love for the mustang here....just like the lack of love for the camaro on mustang forums. If you want to argue about certain cars capabilities your going to have to do it on a general car forum. Because this is a camaro forum.....it's humane nature to defend your brand. Calling out camaro fans on their own forum just ends bad for whoever is doing it. Look at past threads and comments....on here anyway camaro for the win. And yes I've been on a winning streak against mustangs on the strip....thank you.

I disliked the 2014 and older Mustangs. I found them unattractive, one trick straight line cars with a crummy interior. The redesign I'm feeling. It's more balanced and Ford definitely upped their game all around. The GT350R looks incredible, about 100 times better than the Z28 (which was a major disappointment to me). So far, I'm finding the Gen 6 to be another uninspired Corvette hand-me-down and I'm liking how Ford is progressing with the Mustang much more these days.

I'm digging the Challenger more and more, too. I've owned nothing but GM cars my entire life, but I'd be lying if I said the Camaro is by far the least exciting right now out of the Mustang, Challenger and Camaro.

It's not about brand loyalty, it's about quality and innovation. GM's bringing up the rear these days. What's maddening are brainwashed nutswingers that will contort any fact to boost their low self-esteem. That can be found on any car forum across planet Earth, though some a lot more than others.



Look at what we have, here.

We have Dodge running around with a 707 horsepower beast with back seats and at 4500 lbs that runs toe to toe in a straight line with the new Z06.

And we have Ford that radically redesigns the Mustang with a highly controversial new generation, and designs a radical new flat plane crank motor just for a special edition car.

And what does GM respond with? A 6th generation that looks almost exactly the same as the 5th generation but less aggressive, a 3 year old Corvette hand-me-down motor and, oh, they're reducing their powertrain warranty, right? I wish GM would get it together. Dodge and Ford are making groundbreaking strides and knocking it out of the park with aggressive designs and taking big risks, and GM's asleep at the wheel. GM knocked it out of the park with the 2010 Camaro because it was so bold and risky at the time. They've been hitting the snooze since they phoned it in with the 2014 refresh and the uninspired 6th gen.

Nobody is probably listening to me and nobody probably cares, but hopefully my disappointment with their lack of innovation reaches some important person's ears. I already feel I know what the 2017 ZL1 will bring - a current 5th gen ZL1 knockoff that's a little lighter with a boring, detuned LT4. Yawn.

I wish GM would take a page out of their playbook with the radical Stingray redesign. What a grand slam that was. Yet with the 6th gen Camaro, they decide to lean in, get hit by a pitch and take a free base.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by Jpnyhc1le

Hey anybody what the curb weight will be of the gt350? The numbers have been all over from 3550 to 3850.

Estimates are fairly close to the GT. Magnetic ride suspension and bigger brakes will add weight, but the lighter wheels and lighter motor should make it a wash. I've seen estimates coming in at 3,800 lbs, but at this point it's throwing darts at a wall.

[Jpnyhc1le]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

Unknown at this time. However, if the GT350R has been noted as weighing 3650 with a full tank of gas, you can imagine the base GT350 will beslightly heavier.

Thanks

[Jpnyhc1le]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

Estimates are fairly close to the GT. Magnetic ride suspension and bigger brakes will add weight, but the lighter wheels and lighter motor should make it a wash. I've seen estimates coming in at 3,800 lbs, but at this point it's throwing darts at a wall.

Thats what i thought just wasnt sure. Thanks

[Jpnyhc1le]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

I disliked the 2014 and older Mustangs. I found them unattractive, one trick straight line cars with a crummy interior. The redesign I'm feeling. It's more balanced and Ford definitely upped their game all around. The GT350R looks incredible, about 100 times better than the Z28 (which was a major disappointment to me). So far, I'm finding the Gen 6 to be another uninspired Corvette hand-me-down and I'm liking how Ford is progressing with the Mustang much more these days.

I'm digging the Challenger more and more, too. I've owned nothing but GM cars my entire life, but I'd be lying if I said the Camaro is by far the least exciting right now out of the Mustang, Challenger and Camaro.

It's not about brand loyalty, it's about quality and innovation. GM's bringing up the rear these days. What's maddening are brainwashed nutswingers that will contort any fact to boost their low self-esteem. That can be found on any car forum across planet Earth, though some a lot more than others.



Look at what we have, here.

We have Dodge running around with a 707 horsepower beast with back seats and at 4500 lbs that runs toe to toe in a straight line with the new Z06.

And we have Ford that radically redesigns the Mustang with a highly controversial new generation, and designs a radical new flat plane crank motor just for a special edition car.

And what does GM respond with? A 6th generation that looks almost exactly the same as the 5th generation but less aggressive, a 3 year old Corvette hand-me-down motor and, oh, they're reducing their powertrain warranty, right? I wish GM would get it together. Dodge and Ford are making groundbreaking strides and knocking it out of the park with aggressive designs and taking big risks, and GM's asleep at the wheel. GM knocked it out of the park with the 2010 Camaro because it was so bold and risky at the time. They've been hitting the snooze since they phoned it in with the 2014 refresh and the uninspired 6th gen.

Nobody is probably listening to me and nobody probably cares, but hopefully my disappointment with their lack of innovation reaches some important person's ears. I already feel I know what the 2017 ZL1 will bring - a current 5th gen ZL1 knockoff that's a little lighter with a boring, detuned LT4. Yawn.

I wish GM would take a page out of their playbook with the radical Stingray redesign. What a grand slam that was. Yet with the 6th gen Camaro, they decide to lean in, get hit by a pitch and take a free base.

I disagree with most of what your saying BUT most of what your saying is your personal opinion so im not saying your wrong. I think the 6th gen mustang has only one improvement and thats handling. They got slower in a straight line i hate the look .they made all those changes and still have lost to the camaro around a track after all that time to get better. Its too early to be damning the new camaro except for the looks department but thats personal preference but performance wise it looks very promising but i could be wrong because like i said its too early, but it got lighter it got more power and i like the looks. Im not crazy about the z28 its more for very wealthy prople who want to go fast around a track but it sucks on the street. One complaint i have about my 1le is its rough on the streets and the z28 is worse so its obviously not an everyday car.the zl1 is a great car tho and with light upgrades can be turned into a rocketship and still have that rediculous handling. For ford the gt350 looks promising but its really still to early to determine performance for that model too. I think your jumping the gun

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

I agree, those are the REAL numbers, except there is no lap 4, so you don't know what it really is. Lap 2 lost 0.31 seconds, lap 3 lost 0.27 seconds, lap 4 could either be 0.21 or 0.15 seconds, lap 5 could have finally been where the bleeding finally stopped. The GT500 isn't going to go 0.3 seconds slower each lap, the numbers will get smaller until a point.

WRONG. The results for lap 4 - X were not published in the article. Any attempts to estimate on your behalf are nothing more than conjecture. You're caught up in estimating WHEN the ZL1 would have passed the GT500 if both were on the track at the same time driven by Randy which is fundamentally impossible. The author plainly states:

"So, yes, the Mustang turned a faster lap, but if it's not repeatable, is it really a win? Find a 2.23-mile autocross and you might have something, but in any road race, the Mustang is going to quickly fall behind."

Done. Nothing more to say. The GT500 is a one (maybe two) lap wonder on one track.

What do you have to say about the head-to-head at Grattan? Or the colossal beat down the ZL1 handed the GT500 at VIR?

Road&Track at Grattan Raceway
ZL1: 1:27.91
GT500: 1:28.53
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...et-camaro-zl1/

Car&Driver at VIR
ZL1 2:57.50
GT500 3:00.60
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...t-laps-feature

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

Nice reading, I ASKED if the LSA suffered from heatsoak like the LT4, since at the track blowers do not like being run full ragged all the time.

Any engine could suffer from heatsoak. The LSA and LT4 are different engines, different blowers. Considering the LT4 isn't currently available in a Camaro or included in this comparison I don't see how it is germane to the conversation. No one in the article said anything about the ZL1 overheating. You're diverting from the topic.

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

See, ignoring Nordschleife and Inside Line's review (taking the 1LE but not the ZL1, so the ZL1 is really underperforming).

What Nordschleife are you referring to? InsideLine has been incorporated fully into Edmunds a while back. What specifically are you referring to? You're being vague. Please post links or something substantial.

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

The 1LE lost to the GT500 at VIR with a 3:01.5 to a 3:00.6 (you posted Car and Driver times for the GT500, but some unknown time for the 1LE).

Think about what you just posted. A car costing $20,000 less, with a 240hp disadvantage was less than a second slower around a 4.1 mile track than the most powerful production Ford ever built. This 9-tenths of a second is a "win" to you but the 3 SECOND win by the ZL1 you ignore?

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

All you are doing is cherry picking results, when it should be very clear. The ZL1 does not OWN the GT500, just like the GT500 doesn't OWN the ZL1 on the road courses.

I have posted all three, direct, head-to-head independent reviews between the ZL1 and GT500. How is that cherry picking?

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

If you want to see what that looks like, see what the Z/28 does to its competition, a high benchmark that is going to be tough to beat but at least Ford is attempting, not just shutting down production.

Nice to see Ford trying. The Boss 302 was the last track-oriented car Ford built and that debuted in 2012. The 1LE, ZL1 and Z/28 have been introduced since then and we're still waiting to see GT350 performance. Hopefully Ford's "answer" will be nothing short of spectacular.

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

Why not, all you do is insult any Mustang owner that comes near these forums? You guys talk about how bad the other forums are but this one is just the same.

When did I insult a Mustang owner? I have many friends that are Mustang owners (although none of them have any pretense that the GT500 is the better track car). There are many Mustang owners that contribute intelligent and interesting perspective to Camaro5. I can't say that about SVTperformance or stangnet.

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

It wasn't just the GT500, even the base 2011-2014 Mustang 5.0 had 235 all-season tires. Step up with Brembo or Track Package and you get 255 summer tires, still skinny for the weight and power of the car. They finally learned that tires and brakes win races, not brute power.

I would argue that tires alone do not make the car. This has been well characterized in the 1LE vs Z/28 tire comparison. The S197 chassis was the fundamental problem.

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

The only worry for me about the GT350 is the RPM limit, which is very strange since during testing of the Boss 302 engine (Roadrunner) they put the engines on the dyno and redlined it at 7500 for hours to ensure they wouldn't fail. If you can only be above 6250 RPM's for 8 seconds, something is not up to par and they are shooting themselves in the foot trying to race the engine out the door.

Not sure how this will affect real-world track performance. As I read it, if RPM's drop below 5,000 the 8-second clock is reset. Will depend on gear spacing and the track I suppose.

[titanfan]

Why are people spending so much time and energy discussing the ancient history of GT500/ZL1/SS w/1LE option comparisons in a thread dedicated to a discussion of whether or not the GT350 will be faster (around the track) than the z/28? Can we please bring the comments back around to that subject?