Help to lower IAT's on PD blower - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

LedfootLarry · 10-08-2015, 10:13 AM

As the title says:
I have a C5 Z06 with a 402, 8"overdrive harmonic turning a 3.3" 8 rib blower pulley. I have overdrive rear cogs, and produce 13lbs boost, with over 700 rwhp.
I have an Afco heat exchanger with 2 spal fans, but still experience high IAT's.
I run 1/2 mile events , and have 150-160 degree IAT's at the finish. I pull timing at 150*. I have seen 174* in hot ambient weather when I run real hard on the street.
NOW, my question is :
I was thinking of installing pre blower meth, but would like to see some substantial proof that it will lower my IAT's by at least 20* !
Otherwise it is a waste of money to me !
All I ever see is internet here say on the subject, but would like to hear from others who push their PD setups.
So any serious comments welcome
TIA

2SSCAMARO · 10-08-2015, 10:32 AM

My experience spraying 100% meth pre TVS2300 blower is not impressive. I doubt you will be able to attain a 20 degree drop, at least using 100% meth. I can't comment of the effects of meth/water mixtures. The bottle neck in the PD blowers is usually the intercooler brick. It's a PITA but a good ice chest system and self contained pump would get you there.

cc-rider · 10-08-2015, 12:14 PM

Look into a chiller system that utilizes the AC system. If you really want a 20 degree drop in temps and won't spend money on anything short of that...its the only way to go. I would recommend the RX Chiller. Send Tracy a note (owner) and he will hook you up if they have one available for a vette. There is another guy who makes them too...but he's a bit out there with how he does business. Expect you to send him the money and then he will build your system when he gets to it.

And do some research on the systems from these 2. But beware...you will see a lot of mud being thrown around as they have bad blood between each other. Lot of misconceptions and BS thrown out there. Call and talk to both directly and you'll get a much better picture.

Rumbumbees$ponsor · 10-09-2015, 11:42 AM

The only example I can give you is this not sure it will help..

My car made 599 rwhp with 140 IATs, I never really measured except on dyno but (I'm sure its near yours in 100 degrees with 85 percent humidity after driving it.) Alex that works with HPtuners now and teaches the mustang class in FLa. He was new to camaros at the time but new mustangs he tuned it to the 599, I had heard that Matt Sorian was coming to Htown, the meth kit was installed pre-his arrival because I wanted him to mess with the meth tune since he probably the best in the nation. You should call and talk to Rodney or him..

He mad 1 pull similar results 598 ish, then the next pull with the meth 647, IATs had almost dropped 20 degrees and Icing between TB and blower picked up 49hp.. I saw lower IATs. I have the worst blower made.. I was also told I needed another nozzle and cold probably get another 20 or rwhp..

hope this helps..

I like the ac sytem chillers as well, I'm really scared to mess with my AC.. My AC is badass it will freeze the crap outta ya in Houston GM really did it right..

I think a option would be a larger tank in the back with a heat exchanger or a few oil or trans coolers that contain your mixture of water/antifreeze for a closed system you could dump ice over the exchanger or dry ice.. since its closed system no worries about draining or bag ice killing your blowers intercolers from contaminants..

Js2fst · 10-09-2015, 01:40 PM

80/20

LedfootLarry · 10-09-2015, 03:37 PM

Thanks for the replys , I am still not sure about the meth. As for the ice tank in the trunk,
Forget that, have you seen the trunk in an FRC? My coolant reservoir is a Moroso 3.5 quart, and that's as big as it will get! I do trips in this car lol.
As for the interchiller, I do not think there is a kit for my car, and I am sceptical whether those work or not , I understand how it cools while cruising , but find it sketchey that it works under boost.
Would still like to hear from more opinions !!

cc-rider · 10-09-2015, 03:45 PM

Truth be told...there is nothing that works under boost to keep cooler stable temps throughout an entire run. When you're in boost and on a long pull...that sucker is heating up and there is nothing you're going to do to keep it the same temp for the entire pull.

With larger capacity systems...that just helps with the overall thermal capacity. You can feed ambient coolant to the intercooler for a longer period of time because the system is 4 gallons instead of 2 gallons. But its still going to heat up. You can also get a faster recovery time...but not as quick as the chiller.

What you get with the chiller systems...is that you start the run from a much lower temp. Sometimes you even have start IAT cooler than ambient air. But as already stated...those temps are still going to climb throughout the run. Nothing you can do about that. But then the chiller system have an extremely fast recovery time. So your intercooler coolant and IAT's cool back to their steady state condition MUCH faster.

LedfootLarry · 10-09-2015, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cc-rider

Truth be told...there is nothing that works under boost to keep cooler stable temps throughout an entire run. When you're in boost and on a long pull...that sucker is heating up and there is nothing you're going to do to keep it the same temp for the entire pull.

With larger capacity systems...that just helps with the overall thermal capacity. You can feed ambient coolant to the intercooler for a longer period of time because the system is 4 gallons instead of 2 gallons. But its still going to heat up. You can also get a faster recovery time...but not as quick as the chiller.

What you get with the chiller systems...is that you start the run from a much lower temp. Sometimes you even have start IAT cooler than ambient air. But as already stated...those temps are still going to climb throughout the run. Nothing you can do about that. But then the chiller system have an extremely fast recovery time. So your intercooler coolant and IAT's cool back to their steady state condition MUCH faster.

I was watch some vids from a vendor on here, I think the guy is from austrailia?
His seemed to work pretty good, just unsure of dealing with a guy so far away, but his system seemed well thought out and engineered, just still unsure, I spent quite a bit last year on tigershark front end and Afco HX.
The other 2 guys selling these seem a little sketchy.
Some pics:

CobraR · 10-09-2015, 11:12 PM

No idea how much of a temp drop meth will give you, however between the drop it does provide and the added octane effect, it would be safer. I run 16-17psi with mine and a dual nozzle kit making 736 through an automatic.

I would call Alky control, guy is really good to talk to, he will give you good info.

1KillerSS · 10-10-2015, 01:17 AM

First off, I'm turbo, not PD blower,and I run 1/4 mile not 1/2 mile.....longer run, higher temps. So I dont think you'll see what I see. But I only know from my own experience I see as much as 30 degrees.

I gotta ask even if you see only 15 degrees, why wouldnt it be worth it to spend the money on, its not like the system will run you 3 grand or anything. If your trying to get all you can out of your car, then I would...get all I can out of my car! lol

LedfootLarry · 10-10-2015, 08:04 AM

You know , I wish now I would have listened to my tuner a long time ago, and ripped this setup off , and installed a YSI !
But I have so much invested in this setup , but keep throwing money at it with poor results. But on the other hand , it is a street car, and only sees one 1/2 mile
event a year, and now it is only 7/16 of a mile !
I guess I have to stand back and say enough !
Have to be satisfied at some point !
My tuner has a Camaro on here , he is a well known tuner with corvettes, and thinks meth is a waste of time on PD's.( but he calls them heat pumps lol).
So , to the OP with the turbo, your meth is injected after boost ( post blower ), same as a centri setup, which is way more effective than pre blower on my setup.
And as far as its not a lot of money for meth ?
Have to consider at least $1000-1200 install and tuned!
For what return ? I need to cool this bitch lol
Like I said , I have a small fortune in this thing
SD tune , 102TB , bored snout, custom CAI, rear cogs, bigger pump, Afco HX,
Moroso coolant tank etc.......

1KillerSS · 10-10-2015, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1KillerSS

First off, I'm turbo, not PD blower..........

Yes I am aware that my setup is totally different than yours, I tried to acknowledge that in my first statement. The point of my post was that IATS always get hotter the longer your under load, even with meth, and that you will most likely NOT see the temp variance your after.

You could just sell your setup and use the money to buy what you really want.

LedfootLarry · 10-11-2015, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1KillerSS

Yes I am aware that my setup is totally different than yours, I tried to acknowledge that in my first statement. The point of my post was that IATS always get hotter the longer your under load, even with meth, and that you will most likely NOT see the temp variance your after.

You could just sell your setup and use the money to buy what you really want.

I could sell , but am not interested, but it's easy to get caught up in mods, but I
Have a life other than my car, so all this thread was really about was requesting
some helpful answers to my problem !
I still feel unsure .

cc-rider · 10-11-2015, 02:14 PM

You've been given all the answers that are available. There is no super secret majic system out there that people are keeping from the market. I think you keep searching and requesting for some sort of guarantee for a system that can run your blower at ambient IAT's 100% of the time. It doesn't exist. It's not physically possible! Generally speaking, there is a 10 degree temp increase for every 1 pound of boost. So if you're running 8 psi of boost, then the air coming out of that blower is 80 degrees hotter than ambient. It's then up to the intercooler to get it down from there before the engine digests it. Some intercoolers are a bit more efficient than others. But I sometimes laugh when I see posts claiming IAT temps almost ambient when under boost. Its total BS, or bad sensors, or wishful thinking. No intercooler is that efficient to take all the heat out.

I think the best system out there is the chiller. It will give you the lowest start temps for any given run...and it will recover extremely quick...and it is there and available anytime you want it with the push of the AC button on your dash. But...if they aren't installed right they can lead to leaks and then there goes your AC.

Meth works too. Ice tanks in the trunk work too. Simple larger capacity reservoirs can do a little bit too. Pick your poison.

On the other hand...be careful about getting caught up in the IAT game. I see some people that obsess about IAT's to a point that it rediculous. It's like they forgot about the 125hp they just added and can't get over the fact that IAT's are 30 degrees higher. Some people have spent more money trying to lower their IAT's than they did on the blower itself.

10-08-2015, 10:13 AM	#1
LedfootLarry Drives: 2003 corvette Z06 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: ontario Posts: 15	Help to lower IAT's on PD blower As the title says: I have a C5 Z06 with a 402, 8"overdrive harmonic turning a 3.3" 8 rib blower pulley. I have overdrive rear cogs, and produce 13lbs boost, with over 700 rwhp. I have an Afco heat exchanger with 2 spal fans, but still experience high IAT's. I run 1/2 mile events , and have 150-160 degree IAT's at the finish. I pull timing at 150. I have seen 174 in hot ambient weather when I run real hard on the street. NOW, my question is : I was thinking of installing pre blower meth, but would like to see some substantial proof that it will lower my IAT's by at least 20* ! Otherwise it is a waste of money to me ! All I ever see is internet here say on the subject, but would like to hear from others who push their PD setups. So any serious comments welcome TIA

10-08-2015, 10:32 AM	#2
2SSCAMARO Drives: 2010 Camaro Auto Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Fl Posts: 1,164	My experience spraying 100% meth pre TVS2300 blower is not impressive. I doubt you will be able to attain a 20 degree drop, at least using 100% meth. I can't comment of the effects of meth/water mixtures. The bottle neck in the PD blowers is usually the intercooler brick. It's a PITA but a good ice chest system and self contained pump would get you there. __________________ Just livin' life

10-09-2015, 11:42 AM	#4
Rumbumbees$ponsor Drives: Autobot Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: H-Town Posts: 230	The only example I can give you is this not sure it will help.. My car made 599 rwhp with 140 IATs, I never really measured except on dyno but (I'm sure its near yours in 100 degrees with 85 percent humidity after driving it.) Alex that works with HPtuners now and teaches the mustang class in FLa. He was new to camaros at the time but new mustangs he tuned it to the 599, I had heard that Matt Sorian was coming to Htown, the meth kit was installed pre-his arrival because I wanted him to mess with the meth tune since he probably the best in the nation. You should call and talk to Rodney or him.. He mad 1 pull similar results 598 ish, then the next pull with the meth 647, IATs had almost dropped 20 degrees and Icing between TB and blower picked up 49hp.. I saw lower IATs. I have the worst blower made.. I was also told I needed another nozzle and cold probably get another 20 or rwhp.. hope this helps.. I like the ac sytem chillers as well, I'm really scared to mess with my AC.. My AC is badass it will freeze the crap outta ya in Houston GM really did it right.. I think a option would be a larger tank in the back with a heat exchanger or a few oil or trans coolers that contain your mixture of water/antifreeze for a closed system you could dump ice over the exchanger or dry ice.. since its closed system no worries about draining or bag ice killing your blowers intercolers from contaminants.. __________________

10-09-2015, 01:40 PM	#5
Js2fst 2010 transformer Drives: 2010 ss camaro Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Lee's summit mo Posts: 591	80/20 __________________ 2010 transformer, vertical doors, 315nt05 rears, pedders supercar coilovers, hotchkis sway bars, links, adjustable, toe bars, bmr poly cradle bushings, 1le control arms, bmr tunnel brace, bmr subframe connectors. Cam 227/239-623-620@114 Mast medium bore heads, sw 1 7/8 headers, cat delete, x pipe, 3" dynomax true duals, fuel rails, fast 102 intake and NW 102 throttle body, catch can, rotofab cai, shifter, raptor custom shift light. Dss drive shaft, 3.91 gears. 492 rwhp

10-10-2015, 01:17 AM	#10
1KillerSS Too much is never enough! Drives: AGP TT SS [COTW] 4/20/15 Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 4,149 View My Garage	First off, I'm turbo, not PD blower,and I run 1/4 mile not 1/2 mile.....longer run, higher temps. So I dont think you'll see what I see. But I only know from my own experience I see as much as 30 degrees. I gotta ask even if you see only 15 degrees, why wouldnt it be worth it to spend the money on, its not like the system will run you 3 grand or anything. If your trying to get all you can out of your car, then I would...get all I can out of my car! lol Attached Images

10-08-2015, 12:14 PM	#3
cc-rider Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MN Posts: 1,179	Look into a chiller system that utilizes the AC system. If you really want a 20 degree drop in temps and won't spend money on anything short of that...its the only way to go. I would recommend the RX Chiller. Send Tracy a note (owner) and he will hook you up if they have one available for a vette. There is another guy who makes them too...but he's a bit out there with how he does business. Expect you to send him the money and then he will build your system when he gets to it. And do some research on the systems from these 2. But beware...you will see a lot of mud being thrown around as they have bad blood between each other. Lot of misconceptions and BS thrown out there. Call and talk to both directly and you'll get a much better picture.

10-09-2015, 03:37 PM	#6
LedfootLarry Drives: 2003 corvette Z06 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: ontario Posts: 15	Thanks for the replys , I am still not sure about the meth. As for the ice tank in the trunk, Forget that, have you seen the trunk in an FRC? My coolant reservoir is a Moroso 3.5 quart, and that's as big as it will get! I do trips in this car lol. As for the interchiller, I do not think there is a kit for my car, and I am sceptical whether those work or not , I understand how it cools while cruising , but find it sketchey that it works under boost. Would still like to hear from more opinions !!

10-09-2015, 03:45 PM	#7
cc-rider Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MN Posts: 1,179	Truth be told...there is nothing that works under boost to keep cooler stable temps throughout an entire run. When you're in boost and on a long pull...that sucker is heating up and there is nothing you're going to do to keep it the same temp for the entire pull. With larger capacity systems...that just helps with the overall thermal capacity. You can feed ambient coolant to the intercooler for a longer period of time because the system is 4 gallons instead of 2 gallons. But its still going to heat up. You can also get a faster recovery time...but not as quick as the chiller. What you get with the chiller systems...is that you start the run from a much lower temp. Sometimes you even have start IAT cooler than ambient air. But as already stated...those temps are still going to climb throughout the run. Nothing you can do about that. But then the chiller system have an extremely fast recovery time. So your intercooler coolant and IAT's cool back to their steady state condition MUCH faster.

10-09-2015, 11:12 PM	#9
CobraR Drives: 2010 2SS Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Baltimore Posts: 124	No idea how much of a temp drop meth will give you, however between the drop it does provide and the added octane effect, it would be safer. I run 16-17psi with mine and a dual nozzle kit making 736 through an automatic. I would call Alky control, guy is really good to talk to, he will give you good info.

10-10-2015, 08:04 AM	#11
LedfootLarry Drives: 2003 corvette Z06 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: ontario Posts: 15	You know , I wish now I would have listened to my tuner a long time ago, and ripped this setup off , and installed a YSI ! But I have so much invested in this setup , but keep throwing money at it with poor results. But on the other hand , it is a street car, and only sees one 1/2 mile event a year, and now it is only 7/16 of a mile ! I guess I have to stand back and say enough ! Have to be satisfied at some point ! My tuner has a Camaro on here , he is a well known tuner with corvettes, and thinks meth is a waste of time on PD's.( but he calls them heat pumps lol). So , to the OP with the turbo, your meth is injected after boost ( post blower ), same as a centri setup, which is way more effective than pre blower on my setup. And as far as its not a lot of money for meth ? Have to consider at least $1000-1200 install and tuned! For what return ? I need to cool this bitch lol Like I said , I have a small fortune in this thing SD tune , 102TB , bored snout, custom CAI, rear cogs, bigger pump, Afco HX, Moroso coolant tank etc.......

10-11-2015, 02:14 PM	#14
cc-rider Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MN Posts: 1,179	You've been given all the answers that are available. There is no super secret majic system out there that people are keeping from the market. I think you keep searching and requesting for some sort of guarantee for a system that can run your blower at ambient IAT's 100% of the time. It doesn't exist. It's not physically possible! Generally speaking, there is a 10 degree temp increase for every 1 pound of boost. So if you're running 8 psi of boost, then the air coming out of that blower is 80 degrees hotter than ambient. It's then up to the intercooler to get it down from there before the engine digests it. Some intercoolers are a bit more efficient than others. But I sometimes laugh when I see posts claiming IAT temps almost ambient when under boost. Its total BS, or bad sensors, or wishful thinking. No intercooler is that efficient to take all the heat out. I think the best system out there is the chiller. It will give you the lowest start temps for any given run...and it will recover extremely quick...and it is there and available anytime you want it with the push of the AC button on your dash. But...if they aren't installed right they can lead to leaks and then there goes your AC. Meth works too. Ice tanks in the trunk work too. Simple larger capacity reservoirs can do a little bit too. Pick your poison. On the other hand...be careful about getting caught up in the IAT game. I see some people that obsess about IAT's to a point that it rediculous. It's like they forgot about the 125hp they just added and can't get over the fact that IAT's are 30 degrees higher. Some people have spent more money trying to lower their IAT's than they did on the blower itself. Last edited by cc-rider; 10-11-2015 at 02:30 PM.