Any truth to the break in rumor?

[Norm Peterson]

Incidentally, for the question of when to do the first oil change . . .

I've done it a couple of ways. On older cars, I've changed oil and filter at around 600 miles before settling in on the "severe service" interval (whatever that happened to be). My cars do see significant amounts of short-hop, idling, and stop-and-go driving.

On the last two cars, I've changed only the filter at somewhere between 700 and 1000 miles and topped off the oil level. Then it's on to the "severe service" schedule. The car in my sig still uses less than a quart in 4000 miles if I can stay off the road courses for that long. Might use a cup of oil (1/4 qt) every three or four 20-minute track sessions where the revs rarely drop below 3500. Due to the track time, the Mustang gets oil changes a good bit more frequently than its recommended severe service interval (which happens to be 5000 miles with semi-synthetic oil, IIRC).


Norm

[MikosV6]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Right there ↓↓↓ in post #10. And I was cutting you some slack before by saying you were only suggesting as much. Upon re-reading post #10 it's clear that you're way more in favor of an unusually hard break-in regimen than I was crediting you for. Any talk about rev limiters protecting against over-revving (whether accidental or not) in the context of breaking in a new car is clearly a case of planning to "overdo it" from the get-go.

I spoke of rev limiters because the notion of "hurting" these engines by somehow over reving them does not exist with the stock programming. Now, if you got a programmer on it and tinkered with the stock settings, then all bets are off. How can you hurt an engine that can rev to 7K rpms by getting up there a few times? Or, in the case of the LFX (looked down upon by many V8 owners on here) nearly 8K rpm?

Serious questions - have you ever spec'ed and built up an engine all by yourself except for any tasks involving major pieces of automotive machine shop equipment? Do you understand thermal transient loading (think too-rapid local heat-up) enough to discuss it on an engineering level?

Yes, I can understand it and love discussing things on that level. In fact, I wish there was more of that on here. However, that's an apples to oranges comparision though. You're comparing a freshly built engine that has a specific procedure at first start up to one that has been run, probably to max rpm a few times, at the factory, outside the transit yard, and at the dealer lot.

The time may come where that 4000 rpm "break-in redline" for X thousand miles will be enforced by the PCM. Those who willfully disregard the mfrs' own break in recommendations will only have to look in the mirror when they seek to assign blame.

Norm

It'll never happen because taking it up to redline a few times during break-in will not hurt these modern engines. Instead, GM gives us a nice rev limiter that will protect the engine unless you mechanically over rev it like on a 4 to 1 mis-shift or something. A few LS1 M6 owners had that problem back in the day and bent there pushrods.

[MikosV6]

Originally Posted by PalmerGA

"Breaking it in easy" (as you describe it) is NOT what GM recommends. The OM says DO NOT use cruise control, vary your speed and acceleration rates (as well as braking), and do not go WOT... for the first 1,500 miles.

As opposed to "driving it like I stole it", I guess you would consider that I "babied" my SS on break-in... I went by the book. GM doesn't recommend a certain procedure in hopes that you will have premature failures. They recommend them to keep you OUT OF the shop as long as possible.

PS: After 24K miles... my Camaro hauls ass, accelerates as hard as I ask it to, burns no oil at all, and performs flawlessly.

GM wants to keep you out of the shop as long as possible? Well, until the powertrain
warranty runs out, 5 years or 60K miles, whichever come first. I keep my vehicles for a lot longer than that and never had a problem.

I never suggested driving it like you stole it. However, I can almost guarantee when you bring it in for those free two year oiI changes, the dealer is driving it like they stole it.

Running the engine up to its power peak a few times is not driving it like you stole it. Burning rubber at every green light, doing neutral clutch drops and constantly bouncing it off the rev limiter ALL THE TIME is. I haven't driven mine like that nor would I recommend it.

[paul84043]

Originally Posted by FloridaBill

Since the motorheads are all here in one place.... When would you recommend doing the first oil change? I'm at 1700 miles and I am thinking about having it done at 2000.

You'll get a million opinions on the break in oil change...

I do one because I want to, if you save the oil, it will have a metallic sheen.

1700 miles is pretty good.. Just don't go to synthetic, or a blend until 10,000 or so. You want your engine to wear, synthetic oil almost stops wear completely.

[paul84043]

Originally Posted by MikosV6

GM wants to keep you out of the shop as long as possible? Well, until the powertrain
warranty runs out, 5 years or 60K miles, whichever come first. I keep my vehicles for a lot longer than that and never had a problem.

I never suggested driving it like you stole it. However, I can almost guarantee when you bring it in for those free two year oiI changes, the dealer is driving it like they stole it.

Running the engine up to its power peak a few times is not driving it like you stole it. Burning rubber at every green light, doing neutral clutch drops and constantly bouncing it off the rev limiter ALL THE TIME is. I haven't driven mine like that nor would I recommend it.

I've personally seen this behaviour. Remember the ZL1 (I think) that the guy busted the service dept doing neutral drops in the lot with a hidden camera?
The Ferris Beuller syndrome is real.

[Moto-Mojo]

"I never suggested driving it like you stole it. However, I can almost guarantee when you bring it in for those free two year oiI changes, the dealer is driving it like they stole it."

I've posted this on another, long ago thread. I took mine in for a, "Battery Saver Activated" light fault. (Range Device - another story...) I was walking around the circular Auto Mall when I see this red Camaro getting on it and fly around the corner exit. I hear it in the distance near redline. Uh, it was my Camaro. This 'test drive' for a battery idiot light? Imagine if it were an engine related repair. He might have went to Bonneville!

They do and will drive YOUR car like THEY stole even if you don't!

[Rockhead]

Drive it hard during the break in period .
Do not drive it at a consistant speed for long periods of time .
Do a first oil change at 500 miles.
Always use the same type of oil the car left the factory with, if there is an issue with the engine and oil samples are done you may not have coverage for that repair from the manufacture

[two_wheel_mayhem]

Originally Posted by polizzio

Do you have any factual data to prove your assertion? Other than just posting some "I know so" statement, do you have any proof of that fact?

Any researched, fact based proof?

Instead of praising the GM engineers (which is your method) even though the method GM lays out is the same as every other manufacturer regardless of engine size or design as has never changed since the days of flat tappet cams. If you go by the book on everything then you should pay attention to your oil life meter and wait until it tells you to change your oil. You'll be waiting a while.

Speaking of flat tappet cams, cam engineers recommend they get broken in at 2000 rpm for 20 minutes to insure they get plenty of oil. Did the manufacturers do this or mention it in their owner's manual.......NO but that's ok because the engineers that wrote the owner's manual are the only true gods.

You are the one challenging my statement, you do the research. I'm not going back over the things I've been reading for years. Moto-mans site is a good place to start. He also proves that just because you don't have a good ring seat doesn't mean your engine won't last through the warranty period, it just makes for a wimpy engine that has more blow by and needs more frequent oil changes. Does your oil life meter know how much blowby your engine has? The engineers that designed the system see this as irrelevant.

There's a cross hatch on the cylinder walls for the purpose of filing the rings. Albeit it's a poor excuse for a file but how long does it take a real file to cut .002" off of a piece of steel...like one pass? So how long does it take to shave a few microns off the outside of a piston ring. It's common sense. If you've ever seen a freshly honed cylinder (I have my doubts) then you would know they aren't exactly smooth at first.

Does GM really care as much as you think? The engine will go 100,000 miles no matter what. Look at all these used cars out there that have high miles. Were they all broken in "by the book" doubt it.

[two_wheel_mayhem]

Originally Posted by jimlem

Mikos- 1st of all could we please get the V6 guys to please sit down and be quiet while the grown ups talk?

[polizzio]

Originally Posted by two_wheel_mayhem

Instead of praising the GM engineers (which is your method) even though the method GM lays out is the same as every other manufacturer regardless of engine size or design as has never changed since the days of flat tappet cams. If you go by the book on everything then you should pay attention to your oil life meter and wait until it tells you to change your oil. You'll be waiting a while.

Speaking of flat tappet cams, cam engineers recommend they get broken in at 2000 rpm for 20 minutes to insure they get plenty of oil. Did the manufacturers do this or mention it in their owner's manual.......NO but that's ok because the engineers that wrote the owner's manual are the only true gods.

You are the one challenging my statement, you do the research. I'm not going back over the things I've been reading for years. Moto-mans site is a good place to start. He also proves that just because you don't have a good ring seat doesn't mean your engine won't last through the warranty period, it just makes for a wimpy engine that has more blow by and needs more frequent oil changes. Does your oil life meter know how much blowby your engine has? The engineers that designed the system see this as irrelevant.

There's a cross hatch on the cylinder walls for the purpose of filing the rings. Albeit it's a poor excuse for a file but how long does it take a real file to cut .002" off of a piece of steel...like one pass? So how long does it take to shave a few microns off the outside of a piston ring. It's common sense. If you've ever seen a freshly honed cylinder (I have my doubts) then you would know they aren't exactly smooth at first.

Does GM really care as much as you think? The engine will go 100,000 miles no matter what. Look at all these used cars out there that have high miles. Were they all broken in "by the book" doubt it.

I do put A LOT more faith and trust in the research and design/manufacturer (GM) of their engines for "break in instructions" than some blow hard stating wild ass "facts" he cannot back up or prove on the internet.

"File in rings"........more like wear in, polish, and seat....LMAO

[CamaroCracka]

Cylinders are honed with a cross hatch to wear the ring down so it mates to the cylinder wall (seats) as closely as possible. The logic behind a "hard" break-in is that higher cylinder pressures push the rings into the cylinder walls harder to improve the seating. Once the engine is fully broken in the cross-hatching should be gone, but some report after disassembly for whatever reason, some cylinders still having areas of cross-hatching after many thousand miles which would indicate those rings are not completely seated. My source is the internet so it must be true.

Even those that recommend "hard" break-ins, don't recommend a "drive it like you stole it approach." I just put forged pistons in and my machinist recommended something consistent with information found about "hard" break-ins, e.g. don't break in with synthetic oil, on the first few break in runs do some hard pulls in 2nd and 3rd but don't spin it over 5k, don't let it get hot, let it completely cool between runs, don't let it idle until you have a few runs in.

Those really interested in doing anything besides the factory recommendation should do their homework. Camaro5 is a good place to start but there is a lot of information out there. When I read recommendations from others, I put more credence in those that can explain why they recommend it (assuming the why makes sense), rather than saying my uncle's cousin had a car that he beat on from jump and it was faster than a space ship.

At the end of the day, it's yo chit. Do what you want.

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by polizzio

I do put A LOT more faith and trust in the research and design/manufacturer (GM) of their engines for "break in instructions" than some blow hard stating wild ass "facts" he cannot back up or prove on the internet....

The dude you are arguing with may have a point though.

I've got 6 different owners manuals, by 6 different manufacturers, 6 entirely different types of automobiles, chronology from 1987-to present day, and yet, the break-in procedure in all 6 owners manuals seems to be just about the same procedure.

I guess those GM "engineers" you speak of, all graduated from the same school of thought as the rest of 'em eh? Lol

My point is, generally speaking, nothing special was written in regards to your high performance LS3 engine, compared to anything else out there.

There is more than one department involved in maintenance schedules, break-in procedures, and the "suits" and bean counters have a heavier hand than you think .

Old news really, but food for thought.

[JLSuperfly]

There is infinite wisdom coming from everywhere regarding this topic.

[Camaro Dude]

Indeed.

Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools, because they have to say something.

Plato.