'14 AGM 1SS/1LE Track build [COTW 11/17/14]

[X25]

I think I side with Stephen on this one. Manufacturers need to be concerned about every way these cars are used, and a faster warm-up can even be the difference between passing or failing emissions (don't know if they test cold start, but I suppose they do since warming up cats are of utmost importance for manufacturers). They also need to consider those who buy it in the snow belt, or even in Alaska.

For me, the car will never see below 8 degrees (historical record low in the region), and even then, it would still not be a big deal with the fans coming in only after 190s.

I'd think LS3 and LS7 are very similar. LS3 was developed after LS7, mimicking many of its heads' features, and I really doubt that their ideal would be much different, if any. Well, whatever the case, I've learned the hard way with the Miata that a huge radiator does not do anything without adequate flow of air and water, and I hope this will help on the latter.

[X25]

Finally got to install the pedals. I don't know what they think, but the kit only came with 6 bolt/nut couples, and just 8 self-tap bolts! This means, I am supposed to use only 4 bolts for the brake and clutch pedals, which is actually fine, but I'd only have 4 bolts each for the footrest and gas pedals. These bolts are dirt cheap; I'm disappointed that the kit does not come with more of them.

The problem is, the gas pedal has the extension for heal & toe, and if you hit that part of it hard, it does not have a corresponding support surface at the bottom, and will pull from the other side of the pedal in time. These self-tapping bolts can't even hold much torque, and I doubt they would hold in the long run. As such, I went to my local ACE Hardware Store, and got more bolts.

I used all the bolt provisions on the gas pedal to ensure longevity. I highly recommend you guys do the same, too. The clutch/brake pedals are much safer with the bolt/nut couples.


The camber plates are both oriented exactly 45 degrees, almost maxed for camber/caster. I'll see if they move at all after the track day. I intend to mark them before the sessions.

[dzmitry]

Looks nice
Could you please share the link where you bought pedals.

[X25]

Originally Posted by dzmitry

Looks nice
Could you please share the link where you bought pedals.

Got it from Southern Car Parts:
http://www.southerncarparts.com/2010...ls-p-2927.html

$130

[dzmitry]

thx

[Stephen12ZL1]

Originally Posted by Dropspeed

LS3 and LS7 are two different motors, simply stating if GM decide to use it there must be merit holds no weight as they are very different. Simple things like fan switch, oil capacity, cooling system and that pesky calibration thing are all different and part of how the correct operating temp is controlled

My suggestion is make changes to the coolant system and you will see the best results. (T-stat, radiator, fan switch, cal)

Sure...I understand the "total package" logic. I doubt the calibration is much different except maybe for timing at certain temps and fan on/off settings. LS7 or LS anything really aren't that different in Gen IV LS. Do what makes you happy and allows restful sleep...l still vote for a lower temp t-stat everything else being equal. At track temps, a different t-stat probably makes very little difference if any.

[X25]

Well, I had an interesting day. First impressions, and then the issues.

• Camber plates: I was worried that the camber plates could go off-spec once I start hitting the bumps at the track hard. I marked the settings, and checked after every session. Nothing moved! It appears 20lb.ft on those small bolts are indeed enough to keep things in place.
• New alignment: It worked great! The turn-in right before the corkscrew is much improved, and the car even feels more stable in the sweeping turns. The tire wear was also even. I love it!
• Pedals: They worked great; ZERO mis-shifts! Okay, one mis-shift, but it was due my seat settings. Highly recommended.
• MPSC 2 tires: I set the temps to 26 PSI cold. Well, they worked. For 3 laps. It took about 1.5 - 2 laps to get good traction in the beginning of sessions, and then I lost traction once the hot temps started exceeding 33 PSI. A cool down lap or two, and then back to business. This experience is actually very similar to what I had with PSS; no wonder, they're from the same family of tires.

Anyhow, the fun began, once I started discussing what to do to remedy the issue. Since the tires overheat, I suggested I should bump the tire pressures to help support the tire and reduce the flex (and therefore overheating). A fellow driver, who was attending with an Exige, but has a C7 Z06 as well (on which he has experience with the MPSC 2 tires) suggested I should actually drop the temps. Since he has experience with this tire, I decided to just give it a try, and dropped temps by about 1-1.5 PSI. The result: it actually did improve the traction, and the tires' traction seem to have lasted longer.

It also caused this:


Per the Les Schwab right by the track, since the tires are low profile, the TPMS was 'spinned' or 'touched' by the tire surface, and seal is broken! With the pressures now at 24.5 PSI or so (cold), the sidewalls perhaps did NOT have enough strength. This might be true, or perhaps tires just way overheated, heating up TPMS too much, which made its seal lose its strength? I don't really know.. Please note the actual pressures I read has never dropped below 28 PSI (since the tires never really cooled down during tests), but the front tire was leaking when I parked at the paddock. I've never seen anything like this before. EDIT: I'm not sure why this happened, and I'm merely speculating at this point.

Has anyone else ever had a similar issue? All 4 valve stems leak when touched and pressed upon, but the front left, which had 0.5 PSI lower pressure than others, was leaking even without being touched. I had to use painters' tape to push the stem in a direction where it stopped leaking to make it home:


Anyway, besides this issue, it was a fun day. My brother's Viper was way faster than my car, though : P

[Crash76]

I'm getting ready to put Pegasus camber plates in ... Any tips ?
What instructions did you use ? I don't see any pictures in your build unfortunately

[X25]

Originally Posted by Crash76

I'm getting ready to put Pegasus camber plates in ... Any tips ?
What instructions did you use ? I don't see any pictures in your build unfortunately

I used Pfadt instructions; what these plates are designed after. Don't worry; it's a pretty straightforward install.

[Stephen12ZL1]

Originally Posted by X25

Well, I had an interesting day. First impressions, and then the issues.

• Camber plates: I was worried that the camber plates could go off-spec once I start hitting the bumps at the track hard. I marked the settings, and checked after every session. Nothing moved! It appears 20lb.ft on those small bolts are indeed enough to keep things in place.
• New alignment: It worked great! The turn-in right before the corkscrew is much improved, and the car even feels more stable in the sweeping turns. The tire wear was also even. I love it!
• Pedals: They worked great; ZERO mis-shifts! Okay, one mis-shift, but it was due my seat settings. Highly recommended.
• MPSC 2 tires: I set the temps to 26 PSI cold. Well, they worked. For 3 laps. It took about 1.5 - 2 laps to get good traction in the beginning of sessions, and then I lost traction once the hot temps started exceeding 33 PSI. A cool down lap or two, and then back to business. This experience is actually very similar to what I had with PSS; no wonder, they're from the same family of tires.

Anyhow, the fun began, once I started discussing what to do to remedy the issue. Since the tires overheat, I suggested I should bump the tire pressures to help support the tire and reduce the flex (and therefore overheating). A fellow driver, who was attending with an Exige, but has a C7 Z06 as well (on which he has experience with the MPSC 2 tires) suggested I should actually drop the temps. Since he has experience with this tire, I decided to just give it a try, and dropped temps by about 1-1.5 PSI. The result: it actually did improve the traction, and the tires' traction seem to have lasted longer.

It also caused this:


Per the Les Schwab right by the track, since the tires are low profile, the TPMS was 'spinned' or 'touched' by the tire surface, and seal is broken! With the pressures now at 24.5 PSI or so (cold), the sidewalls perhaps did NOT have enough strength. This might be true, or perhaps tires just way overheated, heating up TPMS too much, which made its seal lose its strength? I don't really know.. Please note the actual pressures I read has never dropped below 28 PSI (since the tires never really cooled down during tests), but the front tire was leaking when I parked at the paddock. I've never seen anything like this before, but I think the short moral story is: DO NOT LOWER YOUR COLD TIRE TEMPS BELOW 26 PSI! I suppose GM knew something when they made that suggestion

Has anyone else ever had a similar issue? All 4 valve stems leak when touched and pressed upon, but the front left, which had 0.5 PSI lower pressure than others, was leaking even without being touched. I had to use painters' tape to push the stem in a direction where it stopped leaking to make it home:


Anyway, besides this issue, it was a fun day. My brother's Viper was way faster than my car, though : P

Yep...with the Z/28 wheels the damn retaining nut to the TPMS sensor will loosen and leak down. This happened to me twice and lost enough pressure on track I had to cut a session short. Problem is you can overtighten the sensor retaining nut and cause them to leak as well. There is no good seal at the wheel and I purchased a new TPMS sesnor just to see what is included. I am still experimenting as to what works best with the least hassle. There is a little nylon gasket/washer included with the new sensor purchased at Advance Auto that is not present from the facotry TPMS. If the torque is perfect, then nothing ever leaks down. If it is even slightly off, air leaks slowly and my tires will leak down after the car sits for a week or ao. My tire shop swapped two tires for me in the front and must have waved their magic wand on those two as they haven't been an issue since the tire swap. I thought I was the only one with these issues...let me know if you find the solution to this seemingly simple issue. In my ZL1 which had the OEM black wheels like the 1LE, I never once encountered anything like this.

[Firefighter]

Well I just figured out why I have one tire that constantly bleeds down... LoL

I think mine got messed up when I had tires put on. I'm due a new set (brakes too) in the next few months. I'll fix it then.

[X25]

Originally Posted by Stephen12ZL1

Yep...with the Z/28 wheels the damn retaining nut to the TPMS sensor will loosen and leak down. This happened to me twice and lost enough pressure on track I had to cut a session short. Problem is you can overtighten the sensor retaining nut and cause them to leak as well. There is no good seal at the wheel and I purchased a new TPMS sesnor just to see what is included. I am still experimenting as to what works best with the least hassle. There is a little nylon gasket/washer included with the new sensor purchased at Advance Auto that is not present from the facotry TPMS. If the torque is perfect, then nothing ever leaks down. If it is even slightly off, air leaks slowly and my tires will leak down after the car sits for a week or ao. My tire shop swapped two tires for me in the front and must have waved their magic wand on those two as they haven't been an issue since the tire swap. I thought I was the only one with these issues...let me know if you find the solution to this seemingly simple issue. In my ZL1 which had the OEM black wheels like the 1LE, I never once encountered anything like this.

Thinking out loud:
I'm very surprised that I've never heard of this issue before. Do the rebuild kits come with the new retaining nut, gasket, etc.? Discount tire is closed today, so I'll stop by them tomorrow. I'm wondering if this tire (MPSC 2) has anything to do with the issues I've had.

In other words, I'm wondering if I should replace MPSC 2s with my Trofeo R tires as well. I've had the issue only when I lowered the pressures further, and I'm wondering if what the guy at Les Schwab said has a part in what happened. Does the tire touch the sensor by any means due to low profile?

To recap possible causes:

• GM's 26 PSI min pressure warning might be there to cover this issue, too.
• Les Schwab technician said it happens on low profile tires where the stem is touched by the tire surface, and it spins.
• MPSC 2's sidewall might be softer than the Trofeo R's but Stephen said he had this issue, too, presumably on Trofeo Rs. I remember he was never using low pressures, either, which conflicts with my initial theory of too low pressures causing it.
• What's special with this wheel? Why did it happen with this wheel to Stephen and I, but never with 1LE/ZL1 wheels?
• FYI, my 2013 C6 Z06 wheels were ultra low profile, but they never had this issue.
• Could it be heat? Perhaps I overheated tires to the point where the stem's seal got gooey? When I dropped pressures, the tires also got hotter due to more flexing...

It will be very hard to get to the bottom of this. If anyone else also had this issue, or have an idea, please let us know!

[L99CAMA2011]

So is this the OEM Z28 wheels. Also thanks for solidifying my negative thoughts of MSCP2 tires. I am sticking with my NT01s. I honestly see many of these tires as being made for lighter cars. Also I was going to get some for my 20 " rims 325 30 20 106 load rating at a whopping $345. a piece and run 285s front.

[Stephen12ZL1]

It has to be something with the Z/28 wheel and yes, I was running the Trofeos when the sensor retaining nut loosened. I was starting at 28psi the day it sidelined me at the track. Does it have to do with expansion & contraction of the metal in the wheel?