A month's worth of lug studs now... - Page 3 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Gayton81 · 04-12-2016, 06:07 PM

Well then that's three of them in my location in three different states that use it and does recommend it. And I was a aircraft mechanic for 12 years and in the aviation industry for 15 years.

To each is their own but FWIW as a M&S engineer after multiple analysis over many years I will continue to use it as I have never had any issues in over 20 years as the compounds are made for this sort of application.

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backbaconrules · 04-12-2016, 06:09 PM

Is it the same hub that the lugs break? Where on the stud do they break? Thread finish, or middle of the thread?

13White1LE · 04-12-2016, 06:21 PM

have you tried arp studs? the tensile strength is higher and should reduce the frequency of replacement.

HDRDTD · 04-12-2016, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerTM

I don't know about aircraft, but GM does not recommend using anti seize on any bolt. FWIW, I'm a GM tech.

It's my understanding that wheel studs have a coating them already (blue color ?) making old fashioned anti-seize compounds un-necessary.

GVA 45TH 2SS · 04-12-2016, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayton81

Anti seize does not reduce clamping force, it prevents the two metals from seizing together due to corrosion...otherwise why would we use it on aircraft parts that could "reduce clamping pressure" and fall out of the sky?

Many GM service departments use and recommend anti seize on wheel studs and many other vehicle applications.

I think what hes trying to say is this.
Anti Seize as well as thread locker affect the torque spec.
Dry torque is ALWAYS spec'd higher.
The loctite/ anti seize affects the way force applied to a stud or bolt.

so 90 ftlbs with never seize would be the same as around 105 ftlbs on a dry bolt.
This leads to breaking of bolts and higher fatigue when trying to remove them.

Rusty35 · 04-12-2016, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96SS10SS

That's nuts! Are you sure your torque wrench is working correctly?

No its the studs

1Coopgt · 04-12-2016, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDRDTD

It's my understanding that wheel studs have a coating them already (blue color ?) making old fashioned anti-seize compounds un-necessary.

Wow. The Blue Tint on the studs is to indicate the torque range that the lugs are suppose to be tightened to in your owners manual . Think it's Blue and the other color is yellow . If Yellow is wrong someone will correct me I'm sure .

fz4k98 · 04-12-2016, 08:11 PM

I read your original post and you mentioned breaking while tightening and loosening. Here is something to consider. If you are finish seating the studs under medium to high torque it is a likely contributor.

If the stud is not fully seated and you want to torque to say 90 ft lbs for example you may be spending too many degrees of rotation at say 80 ft lbs while drawing the stud to fully seated.

This is placing the stud under dynamic torque too long. I ran into this issue with studs on window regulators and the solution was to ensure fully seated and also ensure the angle after torque was not excessive.

JCunningham · 04-13-2016, 01:46 AM

blue lug nuts are 110ftlbs
silver lug nuts are 140ftlbs

1Coopgt · 04-13-2016, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCunningham

blue lug nuts are 110ftlbs
silver lug nuts are 140ftlbs

Bingo . I knew someone would correct me . TY

Thor142 · 04-13-2016, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayton81

Anti seize does not reduce clamping force, it prevents the two metals from seizing together due to corrosion...otherwise why would we use it on aircraft parts that could "reduce clamping pressure" and fall out of the sky?

Many GM service departments use and recommend anti seize on wheel studs and many other vehicle applications.

1) Yes it does. http://www.antiseize.com/pdf/torque_specifications.pdf

2) Just cause some one does something or has done something for years doesn't make it right. SHow me any official document by GM that states to use anti-seize on a wheel lug. I don't know what parts on an aircraft use anti-seize. it's irrelevant. We are talking about wheel lugs.

Scalded Dog · 04-13-2016, 11:15 AM

Many excellent thoughts/ ideas/ theories/ solutions have been posted here... thanks to all!

Here's a hypothetical question: Let's just suppose (and, this possibility is as good as any right now!) that it's the wheels... I currently have steelies (for the record, I do not like the look of steelies at all... however, I had a spare set of them, and just for giggles, I tried painting them. I asked a few people what they thought, and the reviews were so positive, I ended up mounting them onto my rig, and now they are, by far, the item that draws the most compliments from people. The painted steelies are here to stay!), although the wheels that were on the car from the factory were the silver/ polished/ metalic OEM wheels. From everything I can tell, the studs on 2011 Camaros (LTs and LSs) equipped with either wheel are/ were exactly the same when leaving the factory, so I would therefore assume that the wheels are interchangeable, albeit requiring lug nuts to also be changed.

But... perhaps, for some reason, the hubs/ studs on my car are ONLY built to accommodate the thicker lug sleeve portion of the polished wheel than the thinner stamped steel of the steelies.. and that there is some play remaining, even with the lug nuts firmly cranked down. I have not been able to detect any play... but, maybe it's there nonetheless. I have never heard of wheel swaps causing my particular problem, between OEM/ aftermarket wheels, on any car, ever, but just because I have never heard of it does not mean that it is not possible.

If so... is there a solution? What would be the harm in placing some plain ol' Home Depot washers in between the wheel and the hub, before bolting the wheel in place... just to give it another 1/10" of threaded stud closer to the wheel? How about an actual wheel spacer, of say, 1/10" - 1/4"? I've never been a fan of spacers, for plenty of reasons, but what would be the pros/ cons of just a wee bit of spacer in there? Does this line of thought seem logical?

Thor142 · 04-13-2016, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scalded Dog

Many excellent thoughts/ ideas/ theories/ solutions have been posted here... thanks to all!

Here's a hypothetical question: Let's just suppose (and, this possibility is as good as any right now!) that it's the wheels... I currently have steelies (for the record, I do not like the look of steelies at all... however, I had a spare set of them, and just for giggles, I tried painting them. I asked a few people what they thought, and the reviews were so positive, I ended up mounting them onto my rig, and now they are, by far, the item that draws the most compliments from people. The painted steelies are here to stay!), although the wheels that were on the car from the factory were the silver/ polished/ metalic OEM wheels. From everything I can tell, the studs on 2011 Camaros (LTs and LSs) equipped with either wheel are/ were exactly the same when leaving the factory, so I would therefore assume that the wheels are interchangeable, albeit requiring lug nuts to also be changed.

But... perhaps, for some reason, the hubs/ studs on my car are ONLY built to accommodate the thicker lug sleeve portion of the polished wheel than the thinner stamped steel of the steelies.. and that there is some play remaining, even with the lug nuts firmly cranked down. I have not been able to detect any play... but, maybe it's there nonetheless. I have never heard of wheel swaps causing my particular problem, between OEM/ aftermarket wheels, on any car, ever, but just because I have never heard of it does not mean that it is not possible.

If so... is there a solution? What would be the harm in placing some plain ol' Home Depot washers in between the wheel and the hub, before bolting the wheel in place... just to give it another 1/10" of threaded stud closer to the wheel? How about an actual wheel spacer, of say, 1/10" - 1/4"? I've never been a fan of spacers, for plenty of reasons, but what would be the pros/ cons of just a wee bit of spacer in there? Does this line of thought seem logical?

PLease don't do that. The tolerance for the thickness of an SAE or metric washer is way too loose to use as a spacer on a wheel.

Mr. Stacy · 04-13-2016, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scalded Dog

If so... is there a solution? What would be the harm in placing some plain ol' Home Depot washers in between the wheel and the hub, before bolting the wheel in place... just to give it another 1/10" of threaded stud closer to the wheel? How about an actual wheel spacer, of say, 1/10" - 1/4"? I've never been a fan of spacers, for plenty of reasons, but what would be the pros/ cons of just a wee bit of spacer in there? Does this line of thought seem logical?

04-12-2016, 06:07 PM	#29
Gayton81 Drives: 2012 2SSRS Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 171	A month's worth of lug studs now... Well then that's three of them in my location in three different states that use it and does recommend it. And I was a aircraft mechanic for 12 years and in the aviation industry for 15 years. To each is their own but FWIW as a M&S engineer after multiple analysis over many years I will continue to use it as I have never had any issues in over 20 years as the compounds are made for this sort of application. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Money may not buy happiness, but I'd rather cry in a Chevy than in a Ford!

04-12-2016, 06:21 PM	#31
13White1LE Drives: 2013 2SS 1LE Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Homestead Posts: 54	have you tried arp studs? the tensile strength is higher and should reduce the frequency of replacement. __________________ "ah hell you can always make more money!" - dad " its no fun going slow!" '13 2SS 1LE NAV, LT, CAI, Tune with 447RWHP before new lungs, Billy Boat exhaust 3" Fusion.

04-13-2016, 01:46 AM	#37
JCunningham Drives: 2017 2SS M6 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: WNY Posts: 7,070	blue lug nuts are 110ftlbs silver lug nuts are 140ftlbs __________________ real ZL1 wheels and brakes, 285/305 Michelin Pilot Super Sports, Pray ported Intake manifold, Soler Throttle Body, Rotofab intake, EFI Tuning Flex fuel kit, full American Racing Headers Exhaust, 1 7/8" w/ cats H pipe and mufflers. Full 1LE suspension, with BMR adjustable sway bars and links, GM aluminum cradle bushings, Hurst shifter with lighter reverse spring, TWM shifter knob, Tick level 1 transmission. I should have bought a ZL1

04-12-2016, 06:09 PM	#30
backbaconrules Drives: 2011 LT Black Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Posts: 406	Is it the same hub that the lugs break? Where on the stud do they break? Thread finish, or middle of the thread?

04-12-2016, 08:11 PM	#36
fz4k98 Drives: 2013 1ss Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: WI. Posts: 525	I read your original post and you mentioned breaking while tightening and loosening. Here is something to consider. If you are finish seating the studs under medium to high torque it is a likely contributor. If the stud is not fully seated and you want to torque to say 90 ft lbs for example you may be spending too many degrees of rotation at say 80 ft lbs while drawing the stud to fully seated. This is placing the stud under dynamic torque too long. I ran into this issue with studs on window regulators and the solution was to ensure fully seated and also ensure the angle after torque was not excessive.

04-13-2016, 11:15 AM	#40
Scalded Dog Drives: 2011 1LT Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Crestline, CA Posts: 3,029	Many excellent thoughts/ ideas/ theories/ solutions have been posted here... thanks to all! Here's a hypothetical question: Let's just suppose (and, this possibility is as good as any right now!) that it's the wheels... I currently have steelies (for the record, I do not like the look of steelies at all... however, I had a spare set of them, and just for giggles, I tried painting them. I asked a few people what they thought, and the reviews were so positive, I ended up mounting them onto my rig, and now they are, by far, the item that draws the most compliments from people. The painted steelies are here to stay!), although the wheels that were on the car from the factory were the silver/ polished/ metalic OEM wheels. From everything I can tell, the studs on 2011 Camaros (LTs and LSs) equipped with either wheel are/ were exactly the same when leaving the factory, so I would therefore assume that the wheels are interchangeable, albeit requiring lug nuts to also be changed. But... perhaps, for some reason, the hubs/ studs on my car are ONLY built to accommodate the thicker lug sleeve portion of the polished wheel than the thinner stamped steel of the steelies.. and that there is some play remaining, even with the lug nuts firmly cranked down. I have not been able to detect any play... but, maybe it's there nonetheless. I have never heard of wheel swaps causing my particular problem, between OEM/ aftermarket wheels, on any car, ever, but just because I have never heard of it does not mean that it is not possible. If so... is there a solution? What would be the harm in placing some plain ol' Home Depot washers in between the wheel and the hub, before bolting the wheel in place... just to give it another 1/10" of threaded stud closer to the wheel? How about an actual wheel spacer, of say, 1/10" - 1/4"? I've never been a fan of spacers, for plenty of reasons, but what would be the pros/ cons of just a wee bit of spacer in there? Does this line of thought seem logical?