'Muscle Car' or 'Sports car'

[Docker]

Yeah no...I'm done...I don't really care what people think my car is....I'm just a stubborn bastard.

I'll just call it a Six Pack that I banged UR mom in. Lol

[Kenny Camaro]

There ya go, yes sir!

[Mr. Stacy]

Not A Muscle Car:



1980 Rover 3500: Powered by a 133-hp 3.5-liter V8 set adrift by Buick. The body would rot when driven near any body of water, including wading pools and coffee cups.

[Mr. Stacy]

Originally Posted by Kenny Camaro

Hey , didn't that pacer x have a 304 4 barrel v-8. I mean come, it has a v-8 right? Isn't that the be all end all discussion ended, door slammer for so many members? V-8, it has to be a muscle car, I mean it has a v-8 doesn't it, right?

Most X's had a 6 cylinder. '78 was the only Pacer V8 and nobody wanted one so they discontinued it for the next year.

[Mr. Stacy]

Not A Muscle Car:



1982 Chevrolet Camaro Sport Coupe: The base third-generation Camaro was powered by the 2.5-liter "Iron Duke" four rated at 90 HP.

[Mr. Stacy]

Muscle Car:

[Docker]

Muscle car: the first actually



You owe everything to the almighty goat.

[Kenny Camaro]

Originally Posted by Mr. Stacy

Most X's had a 6 cylinder. '78 was the only Pacer V8 and nobody wanted one so they discontinued it for the next year.

One of the engineers at work did a father/son project that was a late 70's Pacer. They built I believe a 304, not for certain, so that's where I pulled that from. Father/son Pacer build? Wayne's World was big that summer, so that's what the son wanted to do. I still don't 'get it'. Even a mustang would have been better!

[Kenny Camaro]

Originally Posted by Docker

Muscle car: the first actually



You owe everything to the almighty goat.

THE first and STILL the best!! 1964-1971
I put the 72 in there, but it was an option on the Lemans, just like in '64. My first car, 72 GTO.

[The_Driver]

Originally Posted by Mr. Stacy

Not A Muscle Car:



1982 Chevrolet Camaro Sport Coupe: The base third-generation Camaro was powered by the 2.5-liter "Iron Duke" four rated at 90 HP.

Yeah, but look how clean and modern the styling of those 3rd gens look even today.

I would have loved to pick one up (back in the day when you could still find an Iron Duke 3rd gen) and a throw a 3.2L "Super Duty" 4 cyl in it. 332+ hp with a 3100 lb curb weight would have been a lot of fun.

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by Docker

Muscle car: the first actually



You owe everything to the almighty goat.

Commonly held wisdom. Many people in the classic muscle car hobby will disagree or at least raise a few points about it. I was in it for 20+ years. The '63 Ramcharger for example existed before the Pontiac GTO. The Pontiac GTO defiantly and loudly began the era of muscle cars with distinct identity, by getting around a GM corporate ban on engine sizes for intermediate cars and by doing it at the top of its lungs. The GTO had identity and a rebellious attitude. The closest thing GM had to this mix before this was the '61 Chevrolet 409, which despite being a truck engine that was hard to hot rod, was fabled enough to have a song written about it before the GTO was born.

This readily identifiable personality has made the Pontiac GTO synonymous with 'the first muscle car' but a check of the big three's history shows cars with the same formula were being made by Ford and Chrysler before the GTO. They just didn't have 'it' with those cars.

The GTO's real accomplishment was that it started to dismantle the GM Corporate Ban on engine size. DeLorean was very clever at gaming the system. Several iterations of this Ban were in place, finally being toppled for good for the 1970 model year.

Re: "Almighty"...well, most GTOs were what the hot rodders called "stones" back then, and they were driven by guys they used to call 'strokes'.

[Kenny Camaro]

What was the meaning of the'stones and strokes' ,as I have never heard that before. It sounds rather derogitory.

[ChrisBlair]

It was. A stone was a slow car. Probably has to do with 'slow as a stone'.

Strokes....I think that it's probably exactly what you're guessing it is.

[Mr. Stacy]

First Muscle Car?

Its top speed was just 97 mph, and it took a full 13 seconds to accelerate to 60 mph from a standing start. Still, it was arguably America’s first muscle car. The 1949 Oldsmobile 88 combined a new overhead valve Rocket V8 engine with a lighter, more streamlined design to offer a truly exhilarating ride. Compared to the big 98 series cars of the time, the 88’s proportions were decidedly more modest. America’s first muscle car was just 202-in long and 75.2-in wide.

The engine design for the Rocket 88 came from GM’s chief researcher, Charles Kettering. He saw the potential in an engine design offering increased compression. For the Rocket 88, Oldsmobile came up with a 303 cubic inch V8 capable of a maximum 135 hp and 283 lb-ft of torque. The overhead valve engine concept offered both power and efficiency, with an improvement in fuel economy (estimated at about 10 percent better than prior engine designs).