best catch can - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Unreal · 06-23-2016, 08:28 AM

Every single person I know making 1000+hp is running a MM can. All of them all ran something else before and had issues.

Now if you just want to make ~600rwhp, and your motor doesn't ever have an increase in blow by, then buy whatever floats your boat. I rather buy something once, and not have to worry about it again besides maybe swapping some fittings. The MM can allows you to reconfigure it in many different ways, and is modular so you can swap stuff out if you want a PCV style like Elite, or vent only under pressure, or full race style can, and you can just unscrew the 3/8" lines and add 1/2", or whatever.

SingleT · 06-23-2016, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal

RX leaked, and fitting broke off since they were just glued in. For the price it was ridiculous cheaply put together.

RX was pretty, but blew out two rear main seals. The single 3/8" vent line is not enough for any decent power level. It can work ok for a lower power setup, but why not get a MM can that can work from stock to 1500+hp compared to one that taps out way earlier. You could get around that by running 2 or 3 of them, but then the cost is sky high, and where are you mounting 2-3 catchcans.

When someone gets on here and spews off how their can will support 1000hp, or whatever, that is complete BS. How much it can support depends on each motor. Certain motors have more blow by. As you increase power, and use forced induction, the ammount of air that needs to vent is amazing. If you saw my MM can on a dyno, it is amazing how much comes out of it. Even with dual 3/8 line I was still seeing excessive crank case pressure, and had to upgrade to 1/2" lines with another 3/8". Now zero crank case issues.

this!!!!!

caper · 06-23-2016, 10:30 AM

ok for those of you recommending MM, does this apply to turbo cars as well?? i see allot of posts saying you need the 3 lines for turbo, but MM doesnt have that?

Unreal · 06-23-2016, 03:03 PM

Mm can have 3 lines and setup same way. Dave can set them up any way you want. Turbos don't need a system like that. It just depends on what you want.

avido · 06-24-2016, 03:19 AM

I sent a mail to mighty mouse company asking for info. Let's see what they have to suggest

Elite Engineering · 06-24-2016, 01:01 PM

Seems like we’re the only manufacture providing verifiable documentation and the science behind it, no other manufacture does, hardly a "sales pitch", just educating members so they can make an informed decision.

This debate keeps revolving around "opinions" by supporters of each. Let’s see actual data on which performs the best.

FIRST:

The MM Catch Can when tested against the Elite E2, E2-X or E2-X Ultra (designed for big boost and big power builds with over twice the capacity of the MM) when conducted with installing a E2-X inline, behind a MM can shows almost as much is caught in the E2 or E2-X Catch Can AFTER the vapors pass through the MM Catch Can. And when performed in reverse, after driving similar miles, with the Elite Catch Can first and the MM Catch Can second show almost nothing gets past the Elite E2 or E2-X Catch Cans. Honestly, the proof is in the bottom of the Catch Can. Try this test, and see for yourself. Run both Catch Cans in series and see which outperforms the other. It’s an easy test.

So, those pushing the non-supporting vendor MM. Oil and other contaminates are getting past and still ingested causing added detonation and knock retard?

I doubt ANY of those that have switched had the latest Elite design, E2, E2-X and E2-X Ultra.

SECOND:

The MM relies entirely on the intake manifold vacuum for evacuation, and with a centri SC or Turbo, that is only a portion of the time. How is that more desirable than constant evacuation in boost or not?

THIRD:

The MM as it vents to the Atmosphere is illegal for street use in ALL 50 States, the Elite systems are ALL emissions compliant.

Fourth:

The ONLY legal grounds for voiding the factory warranty are if the PCV system is altered to defeat or reduce ANY of the functions it provides as it comes stock, so while the Elite systems cannot legally void a warranty, the MM Catch Can, as it vents to atmosphere, can void the warranty.

FIFTH:

How is allowing pressure to build and remain present in the crankcase better than constantly pulling suction at all times so pressure can never build?

You really want to know which design is better, here is our challenge:

We would be open to a Test between the two Catch Cans. We will provide both an E2 or E2-X system AND a MM can (or better yet, have MM provide their "Best" for the test) to a person (that we approve of) that agrees to perform the "catch can test" and agrees to follow all the steps to ensure all is accurate and fair.

Install the MM Catch Can first in line, and from the outlet of the MM run to the inlet of the Elite Catch Can. Document mileage with photos of odometer.

Both cans must be clean and oil free to begin.

The person conducting the test must not be a supporter of either brand, they must be mechanically inclined, and must be someone totally independent that will actually perform this accurately.

They must have accurate measuring containers to drain each cans contents into for accurate measurement.

The type of driving must be as close to equal during each period. 1,000 miles with each can first in line minimum, 2,000 miles preferred each. First drain of each at 500 miles, and 500 miles thereafter.

They must start a dedicated thread to this and report back with each stage of the test (the more often, the better) with pictures of what is caught (The E2 and E2-X will trap far more than oil alone it is so effective. It traps the water, unburnt fuel, sulfuric acid, abrasive compounds and more VS most only trap some dirty oil and you want nothing but air/fuel reaching the combustion chamber).

Understanding, we need to find someone without ties to either company and can present solid, “real” data and results. But this will eliminate the back and forth opinions, and only depict the facts.

Here’s a link to a similar test performed with another manufacture. The Elite E2-X is an improved design over the can used in this test:

http://www.f150forum.com/f70/5-0-upr-vs-rx-catch-can-effectiveness-test-254381/

This is how the test must be conducted. In this case, the person doing the test was a loyal customer of the other can, but he still conducted the test very accurately and fairly. So being accurate and fair is critical to this. NO GAMES!

Sound good? Let’s find a proper candidate willing to take this on. After completion, they can keep the Elite system but have to return the MM (the MM is the deluxe one with breather on top.

We have purchased every Catch Can we found on the market, and performed these test ourselves. Then we dissect them to see why they do or do not work well. We have already done extensive testing on dozens of Catch Cans

If you have a turbo or centri build look at how Turbonetics uses these systems:

http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/tech17/media/Camaro%20Turbo%20Catch%20Can%20Install%20Diagram%2 01%201_zpsfhsjqjx6.jpg.html]

[/URL]
http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/tech17/media/Camaro%20Turbo%20Catch%20Can%20Install%20Diagram%2 02%202_zpsuyfpcgnv.jpg.html]

[/URL]
http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/tech17/media/Camaro%20Turbo%20Catch%20Can%20Install%20Diagram%2 03%20-%20Copy_zpsodzfegft.jpg.html]

[/URL]

And what their head of passenger car applications engineer found after years of trying solutions for the issues all FI builds face:

"we collect less and less nasty stuff, but the inside of the intake manifold is bone dry. The catch can is working perfectly!
The turbo seems happy as well thus far, meaning we are not pressurizing the crank case under WOT and there is enough suction to keep it that way."

"On the catch can side of things.
we have been informing our customers of proper crank case evacuation set-up.
LS3 guys are having great success in keeping the Turbo seals happy."

:cheers:

Elite Engineering · 06-24-2016, 01:06 PM

Side by Side Comparison - No Comparison

Unreal · 06-24-2016, 02:30 PM

No opinions just real world experience

avido · 06-24-2016, 03:03 PM

actually the 3d was mine about which catch can is better and i have a supercharger but you provided a turbo setup so this not clear my doubt.

caper · 06-24-2016, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

Side by Side Comparison - No Comparison

i already pm'd you back a week ago answering your questions and i never received a reply. clearly youve been on here. ????

realcanuk · 06-26-2016, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

Side by Side Comparison - No Comparison

Didn't know performance was a beauty contest.... I'd still stick with what works best at higher hp levels.

Trob85 · 06-26-2016, 07:38 PM

Yep might mouse has all the real world results that I needed to make my decision and a simple install. Oil cap -8 fitting with a line to the can and then a line to supercharger inlet. People complicate things way to much sometimes.

HYBRID-1LE · 06-26-2016, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

Side by Side Comparison - No Comparison

SO i have the huron single turbo set up i just installed on my car. I don't have intake to run the vacuum line. Couldn't i just run the crank valley and valve covers to the catch can then into the intake manifold?

Elite Engineering · 06-27-2016, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HYBRID-1LE

SO i have the huron single turbo set up i just installed on my car. I don't have intake to run the vacuum line. Couldn't i just run the crank valley and valve covers to the catch can then into the intake manifold?

HYBRID,

You need a way t provide evacuation suction to flush and remove the damaging contaminants that are entering your crankcase constantly as blow-by. So you would be leaving these to accumulate in the crankcase. Can you post a picture of your engine bay? That will help give some options. So the Huron system uses no intake manifold? How is the intake air charge routed to the cylinder head intake ports?

Have any of you read these threads in detail?

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...+Mouse&page=72

06-23-2016, 08:28 AM	#15
Unreal Drives: 2006 Z06 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 5,712	Every single person I know making 1000+hp is running a MM can. All of them all ran something else before and had issues. Now if you just want to make ~600rwhp, and your motor doesn't ever have an increase in blow by, then buy whatever floats your boat. I rather buy something once, and not have to worry about it again besides maybe swapping some fittings. The MM can allows you to reconfigure it in many different ways, and is modular so you can swap stuff out if you want a PCV style like Elite, or vent only under pressure, or full race style can, and you can just unscrew the 3/8" lines and add 1/2", or whatever. __________________ Nick Corvette Z06 -1200ish rwhp

06-23-2016, 10:30 AM	#17
caper Drives: 2010 IOM 2ss/RS Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: SoCal, I.E. Posts: 1,546	ok for those of you recommending MM, does this apply to turbo cars as well?? i see allot of posts saying you need the 3 lines for turbo, but MM doesnt have that? __________________ Turbonetics running 8lbs boost at 700rwhp tuned by Hi Rev, installed by K&M w/cat-muffler delete, ACS splitter, Fesler GFX, MPD1 spoiler, Custom painted Rally stripes, Cordon CR1 wheels 275/315s, Hotchkiss comp sways and end links, Barton shifter

06-23-2016, 03:03 PM	#18
Unreal Drives: 2006 Z06 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 5,712	Mm can have 3 lines and setup same way. Dave can set them up any way you want. Turbos don't need a system like that. It just depends on what you want. __________________ Nick Corvette Z06 -1200ish rwhp

06-24-2016, 03:19 AM	#19
avido Drives: camaro ss\rs Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Italia Posts: 755	I sent a mail to mighty mouse company asking for info. Let's see what they have to suggest __________________ 2014 camaro SS Whipple powered ,3.750 pulley,ID850, CAI,Flowmaster American Thunder exhaust,MGW racing shifter,Bo White ported tb,MightyMouse Catch Can,Vitesse throttle controller,GM 3.91 rear end, Dynatech longtube haders, BTR Pd cam,Fluidampr stock pulley,ZL1 fuel pump and ADM fpcm, Phastek scoop and fluid thank relocation Bmr Motor mount . Tuned by Mastuning

06-24-2016, 01:01 PM	#20
Elite Engineering Drives: 2010 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 1,383	Seems like we’re the only manufacture providing verifiable documentation and the science behind it, no other manufacture does, hardly a "sales pitch", just educating members so they can make an informed decision. This debate keeps revolving around "opinions" by supporters of each. Let’s see actual data on which performs the best. FIRST: The MM Catch Can when tested against the Elite E2, E2-X or E2-X Ultra (designed for big boost and big power builds with over twice the capacity of the MM) when conducted with installing a E2-X inline, behind a MM can shows almost as much is caught in the E2 or E2-X Catch Can AFTER the vapors pass through the MM Catch Can. And when performed in reverse, after driving similar miles, with the Elite Catch Can first and the MM Catch Can second show almost nothing gets past the Elite E2 or E2-X Catch Cans. Honestly, the proof is in the bottom of the Catch Can. Try this test, and see for yourself. Run both Catch Cans in series and see which outperforms the other. It’s an easy test. So, those pushing the non-supporting vendor MM. Oil and other contaminates are getting past and still ingested causing added detonation and knock retard? I doubt ANY of those that have switched had the latest Elite design, E2, E2-X and E2-X Ultra. SECOND: The MM relies entirely on the intake manifold vacuum for evacuation, and with a centri SC or Turbo, that is only a portion of the time. How is that more desirable than constant evacuation in boost or not? THIRD: The MM as it vents to the Atmosphere is illegal for street use in ALL 50 States, the Elite systems are ALL emissions compliant. Fourth: The ONLY legal grounds for voiding the factory warranty are if the PCV system is altered to defeat or reduce ANY of the functions it provides as it comes stock, so while the Elite systems cannot legally void a warranty, the MM Catch Can, as it vents to atmosphere, can void the warranty. FIFTH: How is allowing pressure to build and remain present in the crankcase better than constantly pulling suction at all times so pressure can never build? You really want to know which design is better, here is our challenge: We would be open to a Test between the two Catch Cans. We will provide both an E2 or E2-X system AND a MM can (or better yet, have MM provide their "Best" for the test) to a person (that we approve of) that agrees to perform the "catch can test" and agrees to follow all the steps to ensure all is accurate and fair. Install the MM Catch Can first in line, and from the outlet of the MM run to the inlet of the Elite Catch Can. Document mileage with photos of odometer. Both cans must be clean and oil free to begin. The person conducting the test must not be a supporter of either brand, they must be mechanically inclined, and must be someone totally independent that will actually perform this accurately. They must have accurate measuring containers to drain each cans contents into for accurate measurement. The type of driving must be as close to equal during each period. 1,000 miles with each can first in line minimum, 2,000 miles preferred each. First drain of each at 500 miles, and 500 miles thereafter. They must start a dedicated thread to this and report back with each stage of the test (the more often, the better) with pictures of what is caught (The E2 and E2-X will trap far more than oil alone it is so effective. It traps the water, unburnt fuel, sulfuric acid, abrasive compounds and more VS most only trap some dirty oil and you want nothing but air/fuel reaching the combustion chamber). Understanding, we need to find someone without ties to either company and can present solid, “real” data and results. But this will eliminate the back and forth opinions, and only depict the facts. Here’s a link to a similar test performed with another manufacture. The Elite E2-X is an improved design over the can used in this test: http://www.f150forum.com/f70/5-0-upr-vs-rx-catch-can-effectiveness-test-254381/ This is how the test must be conducted. In this case, the person doing the test was a loyal customer of the other can, but he still conducted the test very accurately and fairly. So being accurate and fair is critical to this. NO GAMES! Sound good? Let’s find a proper candidate willing to take this on. After completion, they can keep the Elite system but have to return the MM (the MM is the deluxe one with breather on top. We have purchased every Catch Can we found on the market, and performed these test ourselves. Then we dissect them to see why they do or do not work well. We have already done extensive testing on dozens of Catch Cans If you have a turbo or centri build look at how Turbonetics uses these systems: http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/tech17/media/Camaro%20Turbo%20Catch%20Can%20Install%20Diagram%2 01%201_zpsfhsjqjx6.jpg.html][/URL] http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/tech17/media/Camaro%20Turbo%20Catch%20Can%20Install%20Diagram%2 02%202_zpsuyfpcgnv.jpg.html][/URL] http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/tech17/media/Camaro%20Turbo%20Catch%20Can%20Install%20Diagram%2 03%20-%20Copy_zpsodzfegft.jpg.html][/URL] And what their head of passenger car applications engineer found after years of trying solutions for the issues all FI builds face: "we collect less and less nasty stuff, but the inside of the intake manifold is bone dry. The catch can is working perfectly! The turbo seems happy as well thus far, meaning we are not pressurizing the crank case under WOT and there is enough suction to keep it that way." "On the catch can side of things. we have been informing our customers of proper crank case evacuation set-up. LS3 guys are having great success in keeping the Turbo seals happy." :cheers:

06-24-2016, 01:06 PM	#21
Elite Engineering Drives: 2010 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 1,383	Side by Side Comparison - No Comparison Attached Images

06-24-2016, 02:30 PM	#22
Unreal Drives: 2006 Z06 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 5,712	No opinions just real world experience __________________ Nick Corvette Z06 -1200ish rwhp

06-24-2016, 03:03 PM	#23
avido Drives: camaro ss\rs Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Italia Posts: 755	actually the 3d was mine about which catch can is better and i have a supercharger but you provided a turbo setup so this not clear my doubt. __________________ 2014 camaro SS Whipple powered ,3.750 pulley,ID850, CAI,Flowmaster American Thunder exhaust,MGW racing shifter,Bo White ported tb,MightyMouse Catch Can,Vitesse throttle controller,GM 3.91 rear end, Dynatech longtube haders, BTR Pd cam,Fluidampr stock pulley,ZL1 fuel pump and ADM fpcm, Phastek scoop and fluid thank relocation Bmr Motor mount . Tuned by Mastuning

06-26-2016, 07:38 PM	#26
Trob85 Svt lol Drives: 2011 ss inferno orange blown Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Topeka Posts: 2,312	Yep might mouse has all the real world results that I needed to make my decision and a simple install. Oil cap -8 fitting with a line to the can and then a line to supercharger inlet. People complicate things way to much sometimes. __________________ plasti dip is not a mod.......and a cold air intake doesn't make you fast!