Camaro Sales Down 42% July '15 vs. July '16

[Snoman]

Camaro pricing has been outpacing inflation/GDP/household income at 4-5% year over year since it's release in 2009. This is without a single technological improvement justifying the price increase while cost of materials has dropped 10-25%.

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

If the next Vette is $80K+ GM might shoot themselves in the foot. Maybe they expect consumers who can't afford it, to move down to a loaded Camaro & pay current Vette prices.

It's not "If". The 2018 mid-engine base model will start around $80k and goes to $150k+

Originally Posted by Jasper

If I was buying new now, I'd be in a Mustang instead. Nice body, and better price.

You screwed up GM.

Keeping my fifth Gen and will add a Mustang later on.

J

If you don't need room or performance or cannot afford a Camaro and want a "lessor product", I agree. Otherwise Camaro 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. Mustangs are no longer a viable equivalent to the Camaro and haven't been for a really long time.

Originally Posted by Stormcloak

Some random guesses:

-people that aren't die-hard fans of 1 car or the other might have already opted for a Mustang when it was refreshed.

-lots of current 5th gen owners are happy enough with their cars to not consider moving to a new one

-these cars have limited appeal to begin with in the entire marketplace. You'd be surprised, or not, at the number of folks who still believe that US cars are inferior products.

US vehicles have historically been inferior products and while they are improving build quality, they still carry ugly plastic interiors for the most part and will continue to do so.

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by Snoman

If you don't need room or performance or cannot afford a Camaro and want a "lessor product", I agree. Otherwise Camaro 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. Mustangs are no longer a viable equivalent to the Camaro and haven't been for a really long time.

The interior room is about the same & performance is too... at a more reasonable price. The new Mustang is far from a "lesser" product, except to Camaro fanboys of course.

[Snoman]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

The interior room is about the same & performance is too... at a more reasonable price. The new Mustang is far from a "lesser" product, except to Camaro fanboys of course.

I never said "Far from", and "almost the same" is meaningless when it comes to performance. Model for model, the Camaro has been beating the Mustang coming up on 10 years now. From a high level I agree with what your laying down, if you like losing and saving some coin, buy a Mustang---it's got nicer creature comforts at least. I'd buy one for my wife or daughter whom are more concerned with their nails and hair than drive with the windows down.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

If the next Vette is $80K+ GM might shoot themselves in the foot. Maybe they expect consumers who can't afford it, to move down to a loaded Camaro & pay current Vette prices.

That's my point, "moving down" to a loaded Gen 6 Camaro from a Vette isn't that big of a step down now. On the Alpha based chassis with the same power plant, the Camaro is pretty darn close to the Corvette now.

If the Corvette goes mid engine, it will be a completely different ball game. That car will, by simple logistics, become an "elite" car. I think Snoman is very conservative in his pricing thoughts, I'm thinking, if they do the car the way I think they would, $150K would be minimum entry fee.

This would leave a huge void in the segment for GM. They're best solution, I believe, is what they are doing now, and that's making the Camaro competitive with the current Corvette, in both refinement and performance. This is offering a "soft place to land" for the Corvette buyer that can't or won't buy the mid engine car. The other solutions are to build a completely new car, or to offer two completely different Vettes. It would be, however, a huge gamble for GM.

Now this is all being made up in my own head. I do not know anyone who knows anyone that lives next door to anyone that vacuums the carpets in the mailroom at GM. So the big questions are, A) is GM even capable of this kind of long term planning ahead? and B) Are they really going to make the Vette mid engine?

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

The interior room is about the same & performance is too... at a more reasonable price. The new Mustang is far from a "lesser" product, except to Camaro fanboys of course.

Lol.

Performance-wise the Mustang isn't even on the same planet as the Gen6 Camaro. There's a good reason it costs less.

[Snoman]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

...So the big questions are, A) is GM even capable of this kind of long term planning ahead? and B) Are they really going to make the Vette mid engine?

a) Agreed, though I believe GM is pushing for more global sales and attempting to edge out others as a better quality brand and dip their toes in the water at the luxury line. The Escalade broke the 6 figure barrier a few years ago and GM still has much to prove. The primary problem is they are pushing price over any actual product and hoping no one notices. "Look at us, we sell an expensive vehicle" --- yet it's the same product they had 5 years ago

b) yes

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by Snoman

I never said "Far from", and "almost the same" is meaningless when it comes to performance. Model for model, the Camaro has been beating the Mustang coming up on 10 years now. From a high level I agree with what your laying down, if you like losing and saving some coin, buy a Mustang---it's got nicer creature comforts at least. I'd buy one for my wife or daughter whom are more concerned with their nails and hair than drive with the windows down.

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

Lol.

Performance-wise the Mustang isn't even on the same planet as the Gen6 Camaro. There's a good reason it costs less.

I said the Mustang is "far from a lesser product."
You realize that 95% of people who purchase a Mustang GT, Challenger RT or SRT & Camaro SS will never take it to the track, right?
So a half second longer to 60 is moot for the majority of America. My 2015 SS is slower than both the 2016 Mustang & Camaro. I'm sure as hell not gonna run out to spend on a new car because I don't have the latest & fastest.

[MagnumForceGB]

Originally Posted by Snoman

Model for model, the Camaro has been beating the Mustang coming up on 10 years now.

In what standard? The 2011-2014 Mustang V6's were a lot better than the Camaro V6's and the Mustang's have more aftermarket support.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

I said the Mustang is "far from a lesser product."
You realize that 95% of people who purchase a Mustang GT, Challenger RT or SRT & Camaro SS will never take it to the track, right?
So a half second longer to 60 is moot for the majority of America. My 2015 SS is slower than both the 2016 Mustang & Camaro. I'm sure as hell not gonna run out to spend on a new car because I don't have the latest & fastest.

No, it actually is a much lesser product.

But I agree with the rest of what you said.

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

No, it actually is a much lesser product.

It's a matter of opinion based on preference.

[Snoman]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

No, it actually is a much lesser product.

But I agree with the rest of what you said.

Same, though I suppose it is a matter of perspective to the V6 models for some, but the V8 performance numbers speak for themselves. V6's are a complete waste of time when comparing 'muscle cars' as missing the key ingredient (V8) being relevant to the conversation though. A V6 is a great daily and in that aspect, optioned only to garner sales domestic/internationally and you get introduced to a whole slew of cars from Nissan to Mazda to Acura TLs where the Mustang is found lacking there as well.

[Stormcloak]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

It's a matter of opinion based on preference.

It is. I drove, and was actually planning on buying, a 2015 GT with the PP option prior to checking out a 1LE. Nice motor, nice interior, but squishy handling that would have cost quite a bit to get to where I wanted it.

Ford also seems to have more (or at least more documented) fit / finish issues than GM it seems. Maybe that's just an internet perspective.

[Red Chief]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

Yes, but there you have year over year increased sales.
The new 2016 model has been a slow seller & the 2017 is doing worse.

How about this:

07-19-2013, 07:03 PM
cadyshac
2012's still on lots
How long will dealers keep the new 2012's they still have on their lots? If they don't sell what happens, just send them to wholesale auctions?

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308201

This is from the glory days of Gen5 Camaro sales. To put that into the context of current events, that would be like 2016 Camaros still sitting unsold in July of 2017. That may yet happen but it wouldn't be the first time.

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

How about this:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308201

This is from the glory days of Gen5 Camaro sales. To put that into the context of current events, that would be like 2016 Camaros still sitting unsold in July of 2017. That may yet happen but it wouldn't be the first time.

You referenced 2009-11 annual sales increases & I commented on 2016-17 models' continuous sales decreases.

If we're going to see 2012-13, it was 4-5 years into 5th generation sales, when annual figures began to decline. We're already seeing it occur with the 6th generation, so much so, that for the first time in the history of muscle car wars, the Challenger has outsold the Camaro.