Trimming the fat...

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

In the OP's defense, I can't believe how quickly some of you get offended by the slightest comment. It's like you've somehow directly linked your personal ego's to your car. The OP doesn't appear to be a ricer owner by his avatar message. His concern is legit and others have brought it up- they just didn't use the word "pig" so no one cried.

Also there's a lot of confusion on the difference between "grip" and "handling".

But to the OP, 500lbs is alot- you would struggle to hit that. I'd just do the wheels and tires and the mufflers (because I'd do those anyway).

Thank you.
As much as I don't agree with the OP, there is absolutely no reason to attack anyone.

You have all failed to listen to my multiple warnings. Any more disputes and "pissing matches" coming from this thread will be deleted and infracted accordingly.

This your final warning.
I'm tired of people on this forum not being able to have an argument or even disagree respectively.

No more of this please.

[Partick]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

Thank you.
As much as I don't agree with the OP, there is absolutely no reason to attack anyone.

You have all failed to listen to my multiple warnings. Any more disputes and "pissing matches" coming from this thread will be deleted and infracted accordingly.

This your final warning.
I'm tired of people on this forum not being able to have an argument or even disagree respectively.

No more of this please.

Milk, you're going curdle with that tone... lighten up! I'm not one of the bashers but seriously who died and left you in charge of manners? People are entitled to express their opinions and just because you don't see them as constructive doesn't give you the right to scold and threaten them. The op went there with his coice of words so it shouldn't be a surprise some are going to respond accordingly.

[djsnoflake]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

.........we are far from finished.................

I will take my Z28 in Hugger Orange, please Fbod! Just putting in a request right now so I can get a low VIN

[MikesZ]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Someone said something along the lines of "I want it to weigh less and get better fuel economy" So do we. It's that CAFE thing.

How to reduce weight......

well........we could use thinner sheetmetal - but then you get the 'oil-can' effect each time you wash or polish it -- so we didn't.


We could use lots of Titanium as we do with a Corvette -- but that raises the price -- so we didn't.


We could get rid of a lot of sound dampening........but that makes for a noisy interior (kinda like the Z06) -- so we didn't.


We could have made the seats lighter and smaller -- but that would make them more uncomfortable on longer trips and it would cost more (in some cases) -- so we didn't.

There are any number of things we could do...........


...............but let's now look at reality, shall we?

If we want this Camaro to succeed - it has to excel in a lot of areas -- refinement (while not losing its heritage of overall performance -- quietness at 70mph -- interiors that allow you to drive it from coast to coast without feeling like you did -- a solid feel to the body and sheetmetal -- absence of 'flutter' at speed -- IRS -- the list is quite lengthy.

RatedZ -- you may not feel that the above is important -- and that is certainly your perogative. However, those looking for reducing weight are in the very small minority......the majority of owners want a Camaro that's more refined. (go read any major Camaro site from 1996-2002 -- and you'll see what I mean.

So -- yes, you could take out weight - but I won't even start to guess what should be removed --

I'd suggest Pedders -- they have a selection of suspension pieces that I believe would take care of the 'feeling' that you get from the Camaro.

One last thing: As you know: we never rest. Remember when the C5 was the 'end-all?' - and then there was the Z06 - and then there was the C6 -- and then there was the C6-Z06 -- and then there was the ZR1.......

.........we are far from finished.................

Moving from steel parts to lighter aluminum parts e.g. transfer cases, axles, suspension components, wheels, etc. is current and cost-effective technology...combine with a VVT DI V-8 and an 8-Speed Transmission and the performance would be as good (if not better) while delivering much better fuel efficiency. Check out the German manufacturer ZF...they are doing some good stuff in this area.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by MikesZ

Moving from steel parts to lighter aluminum parts e.g. transfer cases, axles, suspension components, wheels, etc. is current and cost-effective technology...combine with a VVT DI V-8 and an 8-Speed Transmission and the performance would be as good (if not better) while delivering much better fuel efficiency. Check out the German manufacturer ZF...they are doing some good stuff in this area.

No offense but I think they knew what they could do to keep the cost's where they needed to be......

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM

And in the defense of the people who were offended

Holy crap- so basically you're telling me we need to be politically correct about cars. The 2000's suck. That's the point, it's a silly thing to take offense over.

Fbodfather, that is a great post. You looked at alternatives and took the best ones to meet your goals and your price point but your always striving to improve your product including weight. No one could hope for more.

[2010-1SS-IBM]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

Holy crap- so basically you're telling me we need to be politically correct about cars. The 2000's suck. That's the point, it's a silly thing to take offense over.

Er, I think you're pointing the PC label at the wrong crowd. It seems to me the PC crowd is going the other direction. After all, no one told the OP, or you, to keep your opinion to yourself. You did tell others that, though.

[All-Or-Nothing]

Some of yall are so sensitive on here. The Camaro is a PIG. In it's defense tho most cars today are pigs. I'm just so annoyed that with this modern technology most cars can't be lighter. I know it's possible, and I do believe it can be done without major price hikes.

Kind of really basic here but if a certain lightweight metal costs X per ton. Seems like if more of that metal was used in more cars then manufacturers could essentially negotiate a cheaper price due to more being used. Wholesale prices or whatever. I know someone can explain it better than me but the cheaper prices could in turn keep prices down and lower some weight from each car. Metal company sells more metal and manufacturer lightens more cars. I'm assuming this is a possibility.

You know what i'm saying??? Anyone???

[MrIcky]

Naw, never told anyone what to do with their opinions. I never offered an opinion on the cars weight-I just said it's a legitimate question and he's not the first to ask. What I was getting at was within 5 posts people were calling him ricer (which on this forum is about as bad as it gets) and other ad hominem attacks.

[MikesZ]

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing

Some of yall are so sensitive on here. The Camaro is a PIG. In it's defense tho most cars today are pigs. I'm just so annoyed that with this modern technology most cars can't be lighter. I know it's possible, and I do believe it can be done without major price hikes.

Kind of really basic here but if a certain lightweight metal costs X per ton. Seems like if more of that metal was used in more cars then manufacturers could essentially negotiate a cheaper price due to more being used. Wholesale prices or whatever. I know someone can explain it better than me but the cheaper prices could in turn keep prices down and lower some weight from each car. Metal company sells more metal and manufacturer lightens more cars. I'm assuming this is a possibility.

You know what i'm saying??? Anyone???

It is possible to replace alot of current steel parts with lighter aluminum parts...just as strong and minimal impact on cost.

[2010-1SS-IBM]

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing

Some of yall are so sensitive on here. The Camaro is a PIG. In it's defense tho most cars today are pigs. I'm just so annoyed that with this modern technology most cars can't be lighter. I know it's possible, and I do believe it can be done without major price hikes.

Kind of really basic here but if a certain lightweight metal costs X per ton. Seems like if more of that metal was used in more cars then manufacturers could essentially negotiate a cheaper price due to more being used. Wholesale prices or whatever. I know someone can explain it better than me but the cheaper prices could in turn keep prices down and lower some weight from each car. Metal company sells more metal and manufacturer lightens more cars. I'm assuming this is a possibility.

You know what i'm saying??? Anyone???

I'm not sure that would work though. More demand for a commodity causes prices to rise. Oil, for example. Your argument could be self-defeating.

Personally, I don't mind the weight if the performance is still there.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing

Some of yall are so sensitive on here. The Camaro is a PIG.

That is a opinion not a fact.....

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by MikesZ

It is possible to replace alot of current steel parts with lighter aluminum parts...just as strong and minimal impact on cost.

It is possible, but aluminum is generally about 1/3 as strong ounce per ounce as high strength steel. So you usually have to stamp structures into it- long flat surface require a lot thicker material. It also takes some different welding equipment which may change your upfront expenses.

[MontyCarlo]

Aluminum also has different thermal characteristics and poor abrasion resistance - it can handle pushes and pulls really well, but compared to other metals it cuts like butter.