BFG g-Force Comp-2 A/S: 11,000 mile update (not good) - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Billy10mm · 01-18-2017, 12:36 PM

You're reading the first part and missing the second part. 25% throttle at just over 1000 RPM in 4th gear should not cause the rear tires to get fully lit. And since that day, there have been numerous slips of the tires during normal commuting conditions. I'm talking Camry/Prius driving-style events like coming to a complete stop at a stop sign, making a left hand turn, accelerating like I've got Miss Daisy in the back seat, and the rear tires slip around a bit. Yesterday morning in fact, I had a guy pull out in front of me requiring me to stop short and I ended up in full-ABS mode when I clearly shouldn't have.

These tires were NOT performing this way last winter. At all. This is entirely new and indicates a drop-off in cold-weather performance, as if they've been heat cycled too much.

terry_b · 01-18-2017, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy10mm

You're reading the first part and missing the second part. 25% throttle at just over 1000 RPM in 4th gear should not cause the rear tires to get fully lit. And since that day, there have been numerous slips of the tires during normal commuting conditions. I'm talking Camry/Prius driving-style events like coming to a complete stop at a stop sign, making a left hand turn, accelerating like I've got Miss Daisy in the back seat, and the rear tires slip around a bit. Yesterday morning in fact, I had a guy pull out in front of me requiring me to stop short and I ended up in full-ABS mode when I clearly shouldn't have.

These tires were NOT performing this way last winter. At all. This is entirely new and indicates a drop-off in cold-weather performance, as if they've been heat cycled too much.

For someone just coming into the conversation regarding these tires maybe they could miss the overall theme. You even linked the other thread, which speaks to your methodology for how you assess the tires.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

sherob · 01-18-2017, 01:16 PM

I'm not discounting what you said happened to you.

If I would have had any problems, they would have shown up during my drive down to Texas and back, trust me. I drove thru some pretty nasty driving conditions... icy sub freezing roads in Oklahoma, Texas, and Colorado with snow added for fun. I'm talking gas station parking lots snow packed... and my daughter whimpering for McDonald's, getting in and out of that parking lot would have even been miserable for my AWD!

Maybe yours are fried... maybe you hit something that was on the road... who knows. I will be watching them closely now because of your experience, and thank you for your post/warning.

gajagfan · 01-18-2017, 02:20 PM

Great post. Glad you were able to save it. Lessons learned for all of us!

Matty Ice · 01-24-2017, 03:12 PM

Hey Billy10mm,
You are right on with your observations. I have crashed and totaled two cars in almost exactly two years. 1st time was a G8 GT with A/S 3's with approximately 12-15,000mi. The 2nd was my 1le with the Comp-2 A/S with just 15,000mi. Both were on bridges/elevated surfaces in a gentle turn while applying the throttle(enough to accelerate about 10-15mph). Both times the rear end kicked out completely unexpected then had complete loss of traction on all four wheels, steered into the turn heading towards the wall, tried to feathered the brake to scrub some speed and see if the tires would catch, then the rear just slid out the other way, then it was completely sliding with no traction at all like I was on ice. Both times ended up doing a 270 into the opposite wall. both impacts were identical. The first time really messed with me and I tried to attribute it to black ice because of the weather condition. The second time really messed with again until I read your article. I did not have any warning signs like you did. Just baam! Rear end kicked out under minimal throttle, crash. Both impacts to the car are the same. Weather conditions a little different, road conditions very similar. Here is the descriptions of the accidents.

G8- 0030hrs, clear night-no clouds, 29degs on a long sweeping 70degs LH turn on the interstate going approximately 65ish, let off the gas/slowed a little going in, inside lane of the two, after the apex just about to exit the turn got back on the throttle to accelerate 10-15mph because I scrubbed off speed, rear end came out. The next day after going back I realized I slid where the turn went over a tunnel/underpass.

1le- 0330hrs, clear-no clouds, 19degs, on the interstate and was in the fast lane, moved to the center lane to pass a slower car doing 55mph. Slowly passed the car at 60mph, once I was 5-10 car lengths ahead, eased into the throttle(4th was going to skip 5th to 6th), rear end came out at 70-75mph, deja vu! Came to rest along the fast lane wall. When I got out looked over the wall and noticed I was on a long bridge/overpass. When I went back the next day also notice I was on a slight turn.

Don't know if it is heat cycles or the compound changes/diminishes as the tires wear. What I do know is these things seem to turn to something different after 12,000+ miles when the weather is dry and freezing. Snow traction seemed the same. These tires do not like dry cold after a certain time frame.

I crashed on 01/14/17 at 0330hrs, read your post on Sunday, wish you wrote it 24hrs earlier, I might have had a little insight and driven a little differently. Here is the obituary for my 1le and some pics of the damage of the two accidents.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=481647

Hankwvu · 01-29-2017, 02:43 AM

I'm watching this quite closely. Great in depth analysis. After buying mine back in April, I ended up going through the GY's by the beginning of fall (7000 miles). I am at 18k miles now with the BFG's. They are wearing quite nicely for me. The cold pavement here in VA hasn't really presented much issues. The few icey times just had me slowing down. I did drive it once over the mountains during a heavy snow fall time back in October. It did much better than I thought it would. I will probably be putting on a new set before I rally again in July. As of right now, I will be putting the same ones back on.

Billy10mm · 01-30-2017, 08:41 AM

Yeah, the price is very hard to beat. I'm just so surprised by how much they've fallen off relative to last year. I'm much more careful on them now, and as someone else in this thread mentioned, it appears to be a temperature threshold, as we've had numerous 30 degree days here recently with no issues. It's definitely a problem in the low 20s and below.

TXSheepdog261 · 01-30-2017, 04:50 PM

Your earlier thoughts on heat cycles are most likely the issue. I had the same thing happened on my sport bike. Tires looked fine but the grip was pretty much gone. From what I was told was the heat cycles make the tire harder, thus less grip. Good luck and drive safe

terry_b · 01-30-2017, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty Ice

Hey Billy10mm,
You are right on with your observations. I have crashed and totaled two cars in almost exactly two years. 1st time was a G8 GT with A/S 3's with approximately 12-15,000mi. The 2nd was my 1le with the Comp-2 A/S with just 15,000mi.

I don't mean to second guess your accounts here, but in the pic of your 1LE the front tires are definitely AS/3s... I know because that's what I have on and I recognize the tread pattern. I'm only bringing it up because those are the tires I have on and was planning on keeping on... but I wonder if it's potentially a matter of all season tires just being overall "OK" in all conditions and the heat cycles wearing them down over time - especially when you consider the fact that the way the 1LE suspension is dialed in is really going to demand higher performance out of the tires.

Matty Ice · 01-31-2017, 09:53 AM

I can only speak for the A/S 3's and the Comp-2 A/S. These tires do change after mileage/tread depth/heat cycles. They are not the same tire as they were the first winter. It is hard to explain unless you have experienced it. These tires were fine in the snow, slush, frost this winter. But once the temp got in the mid to low 20's they behaved completely different. I am talking like a 5-10deg temp swing on road a surface and you will lose grip. This is not that big of a deal if you are expecting it, it is if you are not and have no idea it could happen. If you live in warmer climates were the ground does not freeze or get near freezing it might not happen. Road temps are different than air temp, it could be 34degs out and the road could be 26degs. This could be a factor in the tires performance. I just wanted to give people a heads up that in below freezing conditions(prolonged) these tires behave different after roughly a year of use, for whatever reason.

01-18-2017, 12:36 PM	#15
Billy10mm Drives: 2014 Camaro 2SS 1LE NPP Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Hartsdale, NY Posts: 1,434	You're reading the first part and missing the second part. 25% throttle at just over 1000 RPM in 4th gear should not cause the rear tires to get fully lit. And since that day, there have been numerous slips of the tires during normal commuting conditions. I'm talking Camry/Prius driving-style events like coming to a complete stop at a stop sign, making a left hand turn, accelerating like I've got Miss Daisy in the back seat, and the rear tires slip around a bit. Yesterday morning in fact, I had a guy pull out in front of me requiring me to stop short and I ended up in full-ABS mode when I clearly shouldn't have. These tires were NOT performing this way last winter. At all. This is entirely new and indicates a drop-off in cold-weather performance, as if they've been heat cycled too much. __________________ My thoughts on some things: Driving Nannies: If I'm that far out of shape on the street, something has gone terribly wrong and by all means Mr. Computer man, come and get me. G2s: Rock throwing is like like a tramp stamp; although problematic, it's a sign of good things to come.

01-18-2017, 01:16 PM	#17
sherob Drives: 2015 SW 1SS/RS 1LE Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Brighton, CO Posts: 2,736	I'm not discounting what you said happened to you. If I would have had any problems, they would have shown up during my drive down to Texas and back, trust me. I drove thru some pretty nasty driving conditions... icy sub freezing roads in Oklahoma, Texas, and Colorado with snow added for fun. I'm talking gas station parking lots snow packed... and my daughter whimpering for McDonald's, getting in and out of that parking lot would have even been miserable for my AWD! Maybe yours are fried... maybe you hit something that was on the road... who knows. I will be watching them closely now because of your experience, and thank you for your post/warning. __________________ “The Eagles and the Captain and Tennille ruled the airwaves, and we were the answer to it.” - Joey Ramone

01-24-2017, 03:12 PM	#19
Matty Ice Drives: 2015 SS/RS 1LE Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 537	Hey Billy10mm, You are right on with your observations. I have crashed and totaled two cars in almost exactly two years. 1st time was a G8 GT with A/S 3's with approximately 12-15,000mi. The 2nd was my 1le with the Comp-2 A/S with just 15,000mi. Both were on bridges/elevated surfaces in a gentle turn while applying the throttle(enough to accelerate about 10-15mph). Both times the rear end kicked out completely unexpected then had complete loss of traction on all four wheels, steered into the turn heading towards the wall, tried to feathered the brake to scrub some speed and see if the tires would catch, then the rear just slid out the other way, then it was completely sliding with no traction at all like I was on ice. Both times ended up doing a 270 into the opposite wall. both impacts were identical. The first time really messed with me and I tried to attribute it to black ice because of the weather condition. The second time really messed with again until I read your article. I did not have any warning signs like you did. Just baam! Rear end kicked out under minimal throttle, crash. Both impacts to the car are the same. Weather conditions a little different, road conditions very similar. Here is the descriptions of the accidents. G8- 0030hrs, clear night-no clouds, 29degs on a long sweeping 70degs LH turn on the interstate going approximately 65ish, let off the gas/slowed a little going in, inside lane of the two, after the apex just about to exit the turn got back on the throttle to accelerate 10-15mph because I scrubbed off speed, rear end came out. The next day after going back I realized I slid where the turn went over a tunnel/underpass. 1le- 0330hrs, clear-no clouds, 19degs, on the interstate and was in the fast lane, moved to the center lane to pass a slower car doing 55mph. Slowly passed the car at 60mph, once I was 5-10 car lengths ahead, eased into the throttle(4th was going to skip 5th to 6th), rear end came out at 70-75mph, deja vu! Came to rest along the fast lane wall. When I got out looked over the wall and noticed I was on a long bridge/overpass. When I went back the next day also notice I was on a slight turn. Don't know if it is heat cycles or the compound changes/diminishes as the tires wear. What I do know is these things seem to turn to something different after 12,000+ miles when the weather is dry and freezing. Snow traction seemed the same. These tires do not like dry cold after a certain time frame. I crashed on 01/14/17 at 0330hrs, read your post on Sunday, wish you wrote it 24hrs earlier, I might have had a little insight and driven a little differently. Here is the obituary for my 1le and some pics of the damage of the two accidents. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=481647 Attached Images

01-30-2017, 08:41 AM	#21
Billy10mm Drives: 2014 Camaro 2SS 1LE NPP Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Hartsdale, NY Posts: 1,434	Yeah, the price is very hard to beat. I'm just so surprised by how much they've fallen off relative to last year. I'm much more careful on them now, and as someone else in this thread mentioned, it appears to be a temperature threshold, as we've had numerous 30 degree days here recently with no issues. It's definitely a problem in the low 20s and below. __________________ My thoughts on some things: Driving Nannies: If I'm that far out of shape on the street, something has gone terribly wrong and by all means Mr. Computer man, come and get me. G2s: Rock throwing is like like a tramp stamp; although problematic, it's a sign of good things to come.

01-18-2017, 02:20 PM	#18
gajagfan Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE Black - Std Exhaust Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Brunswick, GA Posts: 3,622 View My Garage	Great post. Glad you were able to save it. Lessons learned for all of us!

01-29-2017, 02:43 AM	#20
Hankwvu Drives: Gto Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Virginia Posts: 65	I'm watching this quite closely. Great in depth analysis. After buying mine back in April, I ended up going through the GY's by the beginning of fall (7000 miles). I am at 18k miles now with the BFG's. They are wearing quite nicely for me. The cold pavement here in VA hasn't really presented much issues. The few icey times just had me slowing down. I did drive it once over the mountains during a heavy snow fall time back in October. It did much better than I thought it would. I will probably be putting on a new set before I rally again in July. As of right now, I will be putting the same ones back on.

01-30-2017, 04:50 PM	#22
TXSheepdog261 Drives: 2014 Camaro 2SS/RS 1LE Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Richmond, TX Posts: 48	Your earlier thoughts on heat cycles are most likely the issue. I had the same thing happened on my sport bike. Tires looked fine but the grip was pretty much gone. From what I was told was the heat cycles make the tire harder, thus less grip. Good luck and drive safe

01-31-2017, 09:53 AM	#24
Matty Ice Drives: 2015 SS/RS 1LE Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 537	I can only speak for the A/S 3's and the Comp-2 A/S. These tires do change after mileage/tread depth/heat cycles. They are not the same tire as they were the first winter. It is hard to explain unless you have experienced it. These tires were fine in the snow, slush, frost this winter. But once the temp got in the mid to low 20's they behaved completely different. I am talking like a 5-10deg temp swing on road a surface and you will lose grip. This is not that big of a deal if you are expecting it, it is if you are not and have no idea it could happen. If you live in warmer climates were the ground does not freeze or get near freezing it might not happen. Road temps are different than air temp, it could be 34degs out and the road could be 26degs. This could be a factor in the tires performance. I just wanted to give people a heads up that in below freezing conditions(prolonged) these tires behave different after roughly a year of use, for whatever reason.