Tires wearing weird all the way around!

[sunshine1531]

We have a 2011 LLT with RS package, so the SS wheels are on the car. The original set of Pzero tires needed to be replaced after like 30 or 40k miles, I can't really remember when, but it was under 50k. The tires were I guess cupping, on every wheel, the tire shop told me it's the shocks, I called bullshit because I used to work in a tire shop and I know their scams, no way the suspension went bad that quick.

So I just bought a cheap set of tires (Firestone) and now the car is at 100k and they are cupped again all the way around. The tires never go low, atleast according to the car, the tire light never comes on, the alignment was done when the tires were put on...what gives, do I really need to replace the suspension?? Kind of like what's happening to this tire, but on the inside and outside of all the tires. https://www.google.com/search?q=tire...Ra5Q1EcVgwKRM:

[sbubbaklein]

any rotations or balance done?

[sunshine1531]

No, I thought you can't rotate these tires?

[Avenging Orange]

If you do a simple google search you will find several causes. Most point to alignment or worn suspension parts.

[Norm Peterson]

As long as the tires are not 'directional', you could rotate them side to side on the same axle. But since you seem to be getting cupping on all four, inside and outside, that probably wouldn't have helped much, nor would a normal 4-tire rotation scheme.

At 40k, the shocks and struts aren't nearly as good at doing what they're supposed to do as they were at 1k. Deterioration is gradual enough that very few people notice, and it's a lot easier to believe that all four dampers are to blame than all four wheel bearings or a suspension bushing/ball joint/tierod on each corner.

A 50k shock/strut replacement interval is not unreasonable, particularly when there's a proven history of tire wear problems. No way would I ever let any car I cared anything about go 100k on its original shocks and struts, and the upper-quality struts I put on one of my cars about 3 years and 40k ago aren't as good as they once were.

If you aren't the original owner, you have no idea how or where it was driven or what happened to it before you bought it. Meaning that you wouldn't have had a clear picture of what the car felt like to drive when everything was in brand-new condition.

I hope the alignment that was done 50k or so ago was better than "toe 'n' go", that the tech actually looked for possible causes of the cupping beyond the legitimate suspicion of shocks & struts. Probably too much to ask that he tweaked the settings at all in an attempt to compensate.


Norm

[sunshine1531]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

As long as the tires are not 'directional', you could rotate them side to side on the same axle. But since you seem to be getting cupping on all four, inside and outside, that probably wouldn't have helped much, nor would a normal 4-tire rotation scheme.

At 40k, the shocks and struts aren't nearly as good at doing what they're supposed to do as they were at 1k. Deterioration is gradual enough that very few people notice, and it's a lot easier to believe that all four dampers are to blame than all four wheel bearings or a suspension bushing/ball joint/tierod on each corner.

A 50k shock/strut replacement interval is not unreasonable, particularly when there's a proven history of tire wear problems. No way would I ever let any car I cared anything about go 100k on its original shocks and struts, and the upper-quality struts I put on one of my cars about 3 years and 40k ago aren't as good as they once were.

If you aren't the original owner, you have no idea how or where it was driven or what happened to it before you bought it. Meaning that you wouldn't have had a clear picture of what the car felt like to drive when everything was in brand-new condition.

I hope the alignment that was done 50k or so ago was better than "toe 'n' go", that the tech actually looked for possible causes of the cupping beyond the legitimate suspicion of shocks & struts. Probably too much to ask that he tweaked the settings at all in an attempt to compensate.


Norm

Very awesome info here sir, we are the original owners, I know every car is different, but her dad's Ford explorer went 200k before new shocks!! I've never seen that before Lol! And out of all the cars I've owned used and new I've never had tire cupping like this, and I've never replaced shocks on any of them, and I probably put 50k or more miles on each. I might have just gotten lucky.

Also the car handles great, still very tight for a big car, but do you think since we've had 2 sets of tires already on the same shocks that had this issue, we should just bite the bullet and go for shocks and tires all the way around, and if the new tires don't do it then we know? I just don't understand cause I've worked on cars my whole life and I would think you would see a leaky shock or feel some kind of bumping, or the car would be floaty and sway some what. The wheel bearing and front end seem tight, I just replaced the brakes and pulled the wheels at 3 and 9 o'clock and 12 and 6 o'clock, I don't feel any thing lose, nor do any of the bearings sound weird. I know dodge neons inside and out, but this car I'm not as good with diagnosing issues, so I was getting on here to maybe see if there is a characteristic of this car where this is normal or something from the factory needs changed...

Literally everything on this car is 100% factory original, shocks, brakes...not one modification. I was also very surprised the brakes lasted 100k. But this past week I have done a power steering flush, differential fluid change (was done at 50k), transmission fluid change and flush (was done a 50k), spark plugs, battery, radiator flush, air filter both cabin and engine (was done at 50), and an oil change. My hands have been full with this car, so if I have to do shocks I will.

[Rodney2011]

Originally Posted by sunshine1531

We have a 2011 LLT with RS package, so the SS wheels are on the car. The original set of Pzero tires needed to be replaced after like 30 or 40k miles, I can't really remember when, but it was under 50k. The tires were I guess cupping, on every wheel, the tire shop told me it's the shocks, I called bullshit because I used to work in a tire shop and I know their scams, no way the suspension went bad that quick.

So I just bought a cheap set of tires (Firestone) and now the car is at 100k and they are cupped again all the way around. The tires never go low, atleast according to the car, the tire light never comes on, the alignment was done when the tires were put on...what gives, do I really need to replace the suspension?? Kind of like what's happening to this tire, but on the inside and outside of all the tires. https://www.google.com/search?q=tire...Ra5Q1EcVgwKRM:

Originally Posted by sunshine1531

Very awesome info here sir, we are the original owners, I know every car is different, but her dad's Ford explorer went 200k before new shocks!! I've never seen that before Lol! And out of all the cars I've owned used and new I've never had tire cupping like this, and I've never replaced shocks on any of them, and I probably put 50k or more miles on each. I might have just gotten lucky.

Also the car handles great, still very tight for a big car, but do you think since we've had 2 sets of tires already on the same shocks that had this issue, we should just bite the bullet and go for shocks and tires all the way around, and if the new tires don't do it then we know? I just don't understand cause I've worked on cars my whole life and I would think you would see a leaky shock or feel some kind of bumping, or the car would be floaty and sway some what. The wheel bearing and front end seem tight, I just replaced the brakes and pulled the wheels at 3 and 9 o'clock and 12 and 6 o'clock, I don't feel any thing lose, nor do any of the bearings sound weird. I know dodge neons inside and out, but this car I'm not as good with diagnosing issues, so I was getting on here to maybe see if there is a characteristic of this car where this is normal or something from the factory needs changed...

Literally everything on this car is 100% factory original, shocks, brakes...not one modification. I was also very surprised the brakes lasted 100k. But this past week I have done a power steering flush, differential fluid change (was done at 50k), transmission fluid change and flush (was done a 50k), spark plugs, battery, radiator flush, air filter both cabin and engine (was done at 50), and an oil change. My hands have been full with this car, so if I have to do shocks I will.

So you got 30-40K on the Pirellis. Normal.
Now, you have 60-70K on the cheap Firestones. Beyond normal.

Tell me again what you expect? Tires that outlast the vehicle?

You have over 100,000 miles and your hands are full because normal maintenance items are due?


F'kn buy new tires already. Get an alignment. Report back.

[sunshine1531]

My finances just aren't in order, on top of the 650 dollars I paid for all the parts for the maintenance I'm doing, I have to get her rims powder coated because they leak air past the bead, due to corrosion and paint peeling off, and she needs new tires, I didn't really want to add suspension to the list, but if I have to I will. I did tell her way back when, if we ever did need struts, I'll get her BCs...but I appreciate the info man, I'll let you know what's going on thanks!

[sunshine1531]

Oh by the way I don't expect tires to out last the vehicle, I just don't understand the cupping and why its happening that's all, and before we got a new set I wanted to fix the problem first.

[Avenging Orange]

Stock struts come pretty cheap....and they have improved them over the years. When I get around to lowering my car I'm going with stock fe4.

[sunshine1531]

Ok I just went out and looked, it's really the drivers front tire that's cupping, and is worn on the outside more than the inside so Merchants effed the alignment up, so this time when I get tires I'll make sure they give me the print out and if it isn't on 0.0 I'll be pissed :-D atleast I know I don't have to go for shocks. So I'll get a new set of tires and see what happens with them, thanks for the input everyone

[Avenging Orange]

Ahhh, well that changes things a bit. Think you are headed the right direction.

[Norm Peterson]

You'll want the toes to be a small positive number (static toe-in) and camber to be somewhat negative (around a degree). Zero camber will beat up the outside shoulders every time you take a corner any faster than a kid on his DMV driving exam.


Norm

[sunshine1531]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

You'll want the toes to be a small positive number (static toe-in) and camber to be somewhat negative (around a degree). Zero camber will beat up the outside shoulders every time you take a corner any faster than a kid on his DMV driving exam.


Norm

Haha love the analogy...a small positive number meaning like .5?? And 1 degree negative on an alignment rack is -1.0 correct?