Cat back exhaust- worth waiting longer?

[rolnslo]

Originally Posted by Xmicro_SS

At what cost??? I am not sure what you are asking. Are you thinking the SOLO could rob PERFORMANCE?? There is no way. The SOLO on the V6 (Like the V8) will be opening up the FLOW of the stock exhaust quite a bit.

I can tell you now, as a Avid Car lover and a SOLO customer, I have not gotten a dyno done because I was never a "Numbers" guy. I took my car to SOLO because of the reputation they have in the SKY/Solstice community, of which I am also a part of. Their reputation is that of high end system with top gains and that is 4 cylinder turbo's. Their reputation as a company and the only "Exhaust Only" shop in North America left, is also one of quality and helping the customer.

When I changed out the exhaust and put in the Mach X on my SS, I felt SUBSTANTIAL power gain. My guess, between 15-20HP. Now that is on a 426HP motor. The v6 with 300HP, I have to guess you can see from 5-10HP. But the bigger difference is the added torque I can feel, which is very noticeable even in 6th gear. And the faster throttle response, is very noticeable.

I gave SOLO a chance to work on my Camaro and I am VERY happy with the Sound, Performance, and at the price they bring their kit to market, it is a no brainer. Read the thread and see if you can trust your fellow Camaro 5 brothers. I am spreading the word for them because they surpassed my expectations. And with their systems being Mandrel Bent and hand assembled here in North America by guys I met, I know I am getting a quality HAND BUILT system, instead of a mass produced machine built system.

Just my 2 cents. Wether V8 or V6, quality is quality and SOLO gets my vote.

The cost I was referring to was actual dollars and cents cost. Certainly not performance.

We all know that the LS3 and L99 have incredible potential that can be unlocked with some simple mods (exhaust, headers, CAI, etc..) but so far, the LLT V6 has yet to expose that same potential. Dyno numbers don't matter that much, my point was that we aren't seeing that same type of gain on the V6 that you V8 guys are getting. And for the cost of a full cat-back system, it had better have an awesome sound because it certainly isn't adding much to the performance of the V6.

As for SOLO opening up the FLOW of the v6 exhaust, their goal shouldn't be to open up flow to it's max levels but to make the exhaust system provide the right balance of flow and backpressure to allow the engine to work at it's optimal output. If they aren't tuning their exhaust system on a dyno to measure the engine's reaction to the best combination of H-pipe, X-pipe, pipe diameter, muffler/resonator choice/location, then they are guessing (maybe educated but still a guess) as to what the optimal configuration is for unleashing any potential the LLT V6 has. If all they care about is sound, then so be it. I don't need a $700+ setup just to change the sound coming out of my exhaust tips.

[GOINGSOLO2]

Originally Posted by rolnslo

The cost I was referring to was actual dollars and cents cost. Certainly not performance.

We all know that the LS3 and L99 have incredible potential that can be unlocked with some simple mods (exhaust, headers, CAI, etc..) but so far, the LLT V6 has yet to expose that same potential. Dyno numbers don't matter that much, my point was that we aren't seeing that same type of gain on the V6 that you V8 guys are getting. And for the cost of a full cat-back system, it had better have an awesome sound because it certainly isn't adding much to the performance of the V6.

As for SOLO opening up the FLOW of the v6 exhaust, their goal shouldn't be to open up flow to it's max levels but to make the exhaust system provide the right balance of flow and backpressure to allow the engine to work at it's optimal output. If they aren't tuning their exhaust system on a dyno to measure the engine's reaction to the best combination of H-pipe, X-pipe, pipe diameter, muffler/resonator choice/location, then they are guessing (maybe educated but still a guess) as to what the optimal configuration is for unleashing any potential the LLT V6 has. If all they care about is sound, then so be it. I don't need a $700+ setup just to change the sound coming out of my exhaust tips.

We do not care just about sound. Anyone could change out a muffler or delete the resonators to change the sound at a low cost. We engineer our kits for optimal performance, balanced flow, and an acceptable exhaust note. We have always done this, and have worked with this and similar engines before with great success. We try many different pipe diameters and many different of our own engineered products to see which combination works best to improve the overall balance of the car.

[Mod007]

No matter what Catback you get your not going to see much HP gains.

[rolnslo]

Originally Posted by GOINGSOLO2

We do not care just about sound. Anyone could change out a muffler or delete the resonators to change the sound at a low cost. We engineer our kits for optimal performance, balanced flow, and an acceptable exhaust note. We have always done this, and have worked with this and similar engines before with great success. We try many different pipe diameters and many different of our own engineered products to see which combination works best to improve the overall balance of the car.

May I ask how you are determining optimal performance? Actual dyno or seat dyno?

[KMPrenger]

Well, speaking in terms of cost....I've not found anything "cheap" that can make this car sound how I want it. By cheap I mean a few hundred dollar part or mod. Best "cost to good sound" ratio I've found out there that I really like is buddylok's custom exhaust...but even that after parts and install would probably cost me at least $500 to $600.

So lets say I end up liking this even more so....well then another 100 bucks is worth it to me. Yeah I hate spending hundreds and hundreds just to get a new sound, but thats the way it is.

If you want more HP numbers, well then you need to pray that a good tune comes out and combine that along with a good CAI and the best flowing exhaust you can get.

Anyways....SOLO....I don't want you to rush your V6 product cause we want your best....but at the same time I'm very much looking forward to your videos!!

[GOINGSOLO2]

Originally Posted by rolnslo

May I ask how you are determining optimal performance? Actual dyno or seat dyno?

We have no dyno'd the kits yet...when we developed the kits, we take the customer with us on the test ride and get their feedback, along with our own. The guys at the shop all have between 20 and 40 years of experience, and we have applied the knowledge we accrued while working on similar and exact engine models. We feel the dyno's are too varied depending on the type, atmospheric conditions for that day, etc. We can judge by throttle response, smoothness and consistency in the powerband, etc. how effective our kits are...we don't simply make one kit and sell it. There is a lot of engineering and trail/error in the development, along with customer feedback. Being a smaller business, we have to compete with the name brands and get ourselves known in the Camaro world. Nothing we release will be anything that we don't think is perfect.

[scrming]

Originally Posted by GOINGSOLO2

We have no dyno'd the kits yet...when we developed the kits, we take the customer with us on the test ride and get their feedback, along with our own. The guys at the shop all have between 20 and 40 years of experience, and we have applied the knowledge we accrued while working on similar and exact engine models. We feel the dyno's are too varied depending on the type, atmospheric conditions for that day, etc. We can judge by throttle response, smoothness and consistency in the powerband, etc. how effective our kits are...we don't simply make one kit and sell it. There is a lot of engineering and trail/error in the development, along with customer feedback. Being a smaller business, we have to compete with the name brands and get ourselves known in the Camaro world. Nothing we release will be anything that we don't think is perfect.

But the same weather that affecte a physical dyno also affects your butt dyno.... But a physical dyno usually allows for a SAE type correction for weather while I'm not sure anyone's butt-dyno is that advance that it takes the weather into consideration...

And while I understand dyno's are not a magic answer and anyone can fudge the dyno results... I would still say it's a very useful tool.... Heck, I'm just a one lone guy and I buy a dyno time to basically test almost ever mod I make to my cars... And while my test are not 100% scientific they give me very good idea what vendors live up to the claims and which ones don't even come close!

I then compare dyno results with track results.. and yes, i make notes on the weather and then calculate DA, etc....

[GOINGSOLO2]

You make very valid points. In the end, we really depend on customer feedback and we know what has worked in the past on similar motors. We would love for
someone with our kit to dyno it. Thanks for your feedback and keep your eyes out for the V6 kit. They have tested 3 different
combinations of product and test driven each with the customer. The 3rd configuration looks to be just right. We do not want any raspiness or popping, and it looks like the most recent combination has eliminated both, while improving performance.

[GOINGSOLO2]

SOLO Performance V6 Exhaust Kit Update Here-----> http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44803

[HotRod6769]

Originally Posted by scrming

But the same weather that affecte a physical dyno also affects your butt dyno.... But a physical dyno usually allows for a SAE type correction for weather while I'm not sure anyone's butt-dyno is that advance that it takes the weather into consideration...

And while I understand dyno's are not a magic answer and anyone can fudge the dyno results... I would still say it's a very useful tool.... Heck, I'm just a one lone guy and I buy a dyno time to basically test almost ever mod I make to my cars... And while my test are not 100% scientific they give me very good idea what vendors live up to the claims and which ones don't even come close!

I then compare dyno results with track results.. and yes, i make notes on the weather and then calculate DA, etc....

That is why it take Flowmaster so long to come out with systems compared to other companys. If they don't like the sound/HP gain they will build a new muffler for that car, Mustang, GTO, Corvette and now a special muffler was built for the V8 and V6. And they don't use a butt-dyno ha ha.

[scrming]

Originally Posted by HotRod6769

That is why it take Flowmaster so long to come out with systems compared to other companys. If they don't like the sound/HP gain they will build a new muffler for that car, Mustang, GTO, Corvette and now a special muffler was built for the V8 and V6. And they don't use a butt-dyno ha ha.

Thing is there may not be whole lot of HP to be gained with an exhaust... regardless if you build a new muffler or not... Don't think anyone has done the deep dive into where exactly the bottle necks on the car are... there may not be a big bottle neck that is easily removed and give you big gains...


And then there is the matter of the Torque Management system.. how much is that holding the car back?

[Xmicro_SS]

Originally Posted by HotRod6769

That is why it take Flowmaster so long to come out with systems compared to other companys. If they don't like the sound/HP gain they will build a new muffler for that car, Mustang, GTO, Corvette and now a special muffler was built for the V8 and V6. And they don't use a butt-dyno ha ha.

SOLO also has built custom mufflers for various cars. So many that most will fit other cars in various combo's. These guys are the only EXHAUST only shop left in North America, and they spent much time installing all the other systems. They came out with their own because they knew, first hand, of the issues with other systems. They have one of a kind resonators.
- The Mach X, has 4 chambers to prevent the packing from moving and changing sound over time.
- They use a combo mesh of stainless & Ceramic.
- The X pattern has a specific "wave" to it to help remove drone - This was very difficult to achieve and took 6 - 12 months in development.
- Down to the size and shape pf the louvers, everything was designed to improve what they were installing from other makers.

We do not know how much time anyone actually spends on R&D, you are assuming because they take longer to come out........that is a BIG assumption. And you are ASSUMING their numbers are not faked, or skewed, and MOST are. There was one large company claiming 5-7HP increase in the Saturn SKY Exhaust they were selling. Well when a few members dyno's theirs, it was 2-3HP. Then comes the back peddle and blah blah about conditions, elevations, etc.

As far as the regular dyno, as others have said, on most cars the HP gains are so small it really doesn't matter. Throttle response, torque, Flow, and sound are the utmost important. Being invloved in the developement of the Mach X, I can tell you the proof is there for all of the above.

Just as an example of flow. The stock exhaust system had over 1000 miles on it when I reached SOLO's main shop in Canada. The system only bronzed up to the factory resonators, just past the "H". When we were done with the MACH X, With only 50 MILES, I was bronzed all the way back to the rear fascia. It was a HUGS improvement in flow and Throttle Response.

I will be getting my car dyno'd soon and will post my findings. I will bet on 15-25HP on the LS3.

[rolnslo]

Originally Posted by Xmicro_SS

...And you are ASSUMING their numbers are not faked, or skewed, and MOST are. There was one large company claiming 5-7HP increase in the Saturn SKY Exhaust they were selling. Well when a few members dyno's theirs, it was 2-3HP. Then comes the back peddle and blah blah about conditions, elevations, etc.
......
I will be getting my car dyno'd soon and will post my findings. I will bet on 15-25HP on the LS3.

Even between two back to back dyno runs on my own car, there was a 5hp difference so unless the parts you are putting on provide a larger gain, then most differences could be attributed to randomness.

By any chance, did you do a baseline dyno on your car before installing the new exhaust system? If not, getting your car dyno'd now won't provide accurate info on the gains from the system, unless you are going to swap the stock exhaust back on during the dyno session to get that baseline number.

[Xmicro_SS]

Originally Posted by rolnslo

Even between two back to back dyno runs on my own car, there was a 5hp difference so unless the parts you are putting on provide a larger gain, then most differences could be attributed to randomness.

By any chance, did you do a baseline dyno on your car before installing the new exhaust system? If not, getting your car dyno'd now won't provide accurate info on the gains from the system, unless you are going to swap the stock exhaust back on during the dyno session to get that baseline number.

A local friend has his stock exhaust, I am trying to see if I can get a hold of it.

I tell you man, I agree, I am not a huge fan of dyno's for small gain mods either. You can fart by the damn car and throw it off.