Comparison: LS3 to S65 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Billy10mm · 09-18-2017, 01:24 PM

So we've been looking around for a fun car for my wife for quite a few months now. My wife not being able to properly articulate what she found "fun" about a vehicle made things difficult at first. It's hard to find a fun car when the person can't define "fun". We eventually realized that she likes power, sound, and a thick steering wheel with good weight and decent feedback.

So I did what any good husband does, I bought her an E93 M3 convertible in Midnight Blue over Tan. I've been turned on to these things ever since one blew by me at WOT on the interstate with a straight-pipe set up. It sounded absolutely orgasmic. And its an M-car, so its got that going for it.

After driving it, I realized just how similar, and how amazingly dissimilar our two cars are. Both weigh about 3900 pounds, are two-door, 4 seat, rear-wheel drive, have an emphasis on handling, and make around 420 HP out of a naturally aspirated V8. The latter piece there is the big difference maker.

BMW's 4.0 liter V8 is less than two-thirds the displacement of our LS3s, and it couldn't be more apparent. Torque is out for a lunch break and will be back in a minute or two. The S65 V8 (that's BMW's code for this motor) doesn't just like to be revved, it needs to be revved. Redline is a smile-inducing 8300 RPM, and thrust really starts to come in around 4K on the tach. To stay on boil, you need to keep it up above 5500 RPM which is relatively easy given the 7-speed DCT our particular car came equipped with (my wife can't drive stick).

It makes a good noise; not NPP-LS3 good, but good. Around town with the top down, you hear mechanical noise from the front of the car with very little exhaust note from the rear. But as the rev's climb, the rear end starts to come alive with volume and it sounds oh so sweet. I did a little shopping this weekend for a cat-back system or to find out if there was an equivalent "fuse pull" for this car - but there's no fuse pull and all the exhaust options are laughingly over-priced. So she'll have to live with what she has (not that she's complaining).

Because of the lack of torque, her car feels MUCH slower than mine. It isn't of course, having almost identical weight and horsepower, but my 1LE is so easy to drive in any gear, has so much damn toque available everywhere, that her M3 feels downright slow when trying to pass unless you tap the left paddle three or four times.

All in all, she has a great car. I don't have much seat time in it yet as I'm having a tough time yanking the keys out of her hand, but what time I do have it in reminds me of two things:

How good of a car BMW's M division can produce
How much I love my 1LE

I plan on autocrossing her car at least once before the season is out, and I'll definitely get some more seat time in it and be able to compare the rest of the car (not just the motor). More to come on this.

Olddudesrule · 09-18-2017, 01:28 PM

Nice review. I've always been a fan of the M3's, and have come close to pulling the trigger a couple of times. Just from a driving experience, cars like that and the 911's are on my bucket list.

Billy10mm · 09-18-2017, 02:07 PM

911 was my Mecca; until I drove a 1LE. More grip, almost as much feedback, better sound ... I stopped lusting after 911s when I got my 1LE.

Olddudesrule · 09-18-2017, 06:11 PM

Good to know, maybe I can skip that one then...

CamaroDreams76 · 09-18-2017, 09:53 PM

I cant agree more. A friend of mine has a E92 and E36. I loved the steering feel of the E92 and the sound was something else. My favorite part about driving it was putting it into M mode and use the paddles to downshift....... that bark the engine makes is phenomenal. I also loved the adjustable seat bolsters. I was pretty shocked, having never drove a DCT car, how the car behaves like a manual car..... feeling the clutches slip and bite and all.

jeff657756 · 09-19-2017, 07:47 AM

One of my buddies has an ESS supercharged E92 M3. Sounds great and is plenty fast, but still no match for a boosted 1LE.

wakespeak · 09-19-2017, 09:53 PM

Nicely written and very interesting comparison! The E92s are great to match up against on the track.

51LE50 · 09-24-2017, 10:48 PM

I bought my 1LE because it felt like my e36M3 on steroids. Yeah, I know, not a comparison to the e92 and the Camaro is heavy but I love the steering and how it feels composed at speed. Not long after I bought it, I ditched the suspension and went with the Z/28 setup. Love it.
I've still got the M3. Half the time I want to sell it, the other half I want to put a cage and an LS 3 into it.

09-18-2017, 01:24 PM	#1
Billy10mm Drives: 2014 Camaro 2SS 1LE NPP Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Hartsdale, NY Posts: 1,434	Comparison: LS3 to S65 So we've been looking around for a fun car for my wife for quite a few months now. My wife not being able to properly articulate what she found "fun" about a vehicle made things difficult at first. It's hard to find a fun car when the person can't define "fun". We eventually realized that she likes power, sound, and a thick steering wheel with good weight and decent feedback. So I did what any good husband does, I bought her an E93 M3 convertible in Midnight Blue over Tan. I've been turned on to these things ever since one blew by me at WOT on the interstate with a straight-pipe set up. It sounded absolutely orgasmic. And its an M-car, so its got that going for it. After driving it, I realized just how similar, and how amazingly dissimilar our two cars are. Both weigh about 3900 pounds, are two-door, 4 seat, rear-wheel drive, have an emphasis on handling, and make around 420 HP out of a naturally aspirated V8. The latter piece there is the big difference maker. BMW's 4.0 liter V8 is less than two-thirds the displacement of our LS3s, and it couldn't be more apparent. Torque is out for a lunch break and will be back in a minute or two. The S65 V8 (that's BMW's code for this motor) doesn't just like to be revved, it needs to be revved. Redline is a smile-inducing 8300 RPM, and thrust really starts to come in around 4K on the tach. To stay on boil, you need to keep it up above 5500 RPM which is relatively easy given the 7-speed DCT our particular car came equipped with (my wife can't drive stick). It makes a good noise; not NPP-LS3 good, but good. Around town with the top down, you hear mechanical noise from the front of the car with very little exhaust note from the rear. But as the rev's climb, the rear end starts to come alive with volume and it sounds oh so sweet. I did a little shopping this weekend for a cat-back system or to find out if there was an equivalent "fuse pull" for this car - but there's no fuse pull and all the exhaust options are laughingly over-priced. So she'll have to live with what she has (not that she's complaining). Because of the lack of torque, her car feels MUCH slower than mine. It isn't of course, having almost identical weight and horsepower, but my 1LE is so easy to drive in any gear, has so much damn toque available everywhere, that her M3 feels downright slow when trying to pass unless you tap the left paddle three or four times. All in all, she has a great car. I don't have much seat time in it yet as I'm having a tough time yanking the keys out of her hand, but what time I do have it in reminds me of two things: How good of a car BMW's M division can produce How much I love my 1LE I plan on autocrossing her car at least once before the season is out, and I'll definitely get some more seat time in it and be able to compare the rest of the car (not just the motor). More to come on this. __________________ My thoughts on some things: Driving Nannies: If I'm that far out of shape on the street, something has gone terribly wrong and by all means Mr. Computer man, come and get me. G2s: Rock throwing is like like a tramp stamp; although problematic, it's a sign of good things to come.

09-18-2017, 01:28 PM	#2
Olddudesrule Resident nomad Drives: 2014 Summit White 1SS/1LE Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,765	Nice review. I've always been a fan of the M3's, and have come close to pulling the trigger a couple of times. Just from a driving experience, cars like that and the 911's are on my bucket list. __________________ Sold: 2007 Z06 2002 Viper GTS/ACR 2003 Z06 1965 FFR Cobra 2012 Nissan 370Z ADM LSA Stage II, Roto-Fab CAI, Kooks LTH/HFC's, Phastek CC, ported TB, Mishimoto radiator and oil cooler, BC Racing ER Series CO's, JPSS 32mm Black Magic rear bar, JPSS front inserts, R1 Concepts Premier slotted rotors/Goodrich SS lines, Schroth ASM harness, MGW flatstick, Brey-Krause HB, Tuned by NicD, at Cordes Performance Racing.

09-18-2017, 02:07 PM	#3
Billy10mm Drives: 2014 Camaro 2SS 1LE NPP Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Hartsdale, NY Posts: 1,434	911 was my Mecca; until I drove a 1LE. More grip, almost as much feedback, better sound ... I stopped lusting after 911s when I got my 1LE. __________________ My thoughts on some things: Driving Nannies: If I'm that far out of shape on the street, something has gone terribly wrong and by all means Mr. Computer man, come and get me. G2s: Rock throwing is like like a tramp stamp; although problematic, it's a sign of good things to come.

09-18-2017, 06:11 PM	#4
Olddudesrule Resident nomad Drives: 2014 Summit White 1SS/1LE Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,765	Good to know, maybe I can skip that one then... __________________ Sold: 2007 Z06 2002 Viper GTS/ACR 2003 Z06 1965 FFR Cobra 2012 Nissan 370Z ADM LSA Stage II, Roto-Fab CAI, Kooks LTH/HFC's, Phastek CC, ported TB, Mishimoto radiator and oil cooler, BC Racing ER Series CO's, JPSS 32mm Black Magic rear bar, JPSS front inserts, R1 Concepts Premier slotted rotors/Goodrich SS lines, Schroth ASM harness, MGW flatstick, Brey-Krause HB, Tuned by NicD, at Cordes Performance Racing.

09-18-2017, 09:53 PM	#5
CamaroDreams76 Tri-County Camaro SWFL Drives: 2013 IOM 2SS/RS/1LE Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: South West FL Posts: 3,103 View My Garage	I cant agree more. A friend of mine has a E92 and E36. I loved the steering feel of the E92 and the sound was something else. My favorite part about driving it was putting it into M mode and use the paddles to downshift....... that bark the engine makes is phenomenal. I also loved the adjustable seat bolsters. I was pretty shocked, having never drove a DCT car, how the car behaves like a manual car..... feeling the clutches slip and bite and all. __________________ Just bolt ons........ https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343023

09-19-2017, 07:47 AM	#6
jeff657756 Drives: 2014 SS 1LE Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: United States Posts: 660	One of my buddies has an ESS supercharged E92 M3. Sounds great and is plenty fast, but still no match for a boosted 1LE. __________________ https://instagram.com/jp_1le/

09-19-2017, 09:53 PM	#7
wakespeak Drives: 2020 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 1,338	Nicely written and very interesting comparison! The E92s are great to match up against on the track. __________________ 2020 ZL1 1LE [Moroso SC Expansion Tank, otherwise stock]

09-24-2017, 10:48 PM	#8
51LE50 Drives: 2015 1LE, 2SS, Bright Yellow Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Big Ditch, CA. The 805 Posts: 132	I bought my 1LE because it felt like my e36M3 on steroids. Yeah, I know, not a comparison to the e92 and the Camaro is heavy but I love the steering and how it feels composed at speed. Not long after I bought it, I ditched the suspension and went with the Z/28 setup. Love it. I've still got the M3. Half the time I want to sell it, the other half I want to put a cage and an LS 3 into it.