Question about torque.

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by 5thGenCamaroChick

Cool, got it, thanks. Still the question about the numbers though. Is a lower number better than a high one, as suggested by that mustang forum post?

The higher the number the better....

[ACDC1710]

Higher the better

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by 5thGenCamaroChick

Cool, got it, thanks. Still the question about the numbers though. Is a lower number better than a high one, as suggested by that mustang forum post?

ie: the v6 camaro has 273 ft-lbs and the v6 mustang has 240.

When they were saying the Mustang had more torque, perhaps they were referring to either the GT or the 2011 V6? Or maybe they just didn't know what they were talkin about

[Sir Nuke]

Originally Posted by 5thGenCamaroChick

Cool, got it, thanks. Still the question about the numbers though. Is a lower number better than a high one, as suggested by that mustang forum post?

ie: the v6 camaro has 273 ft-lbs and the v6 mustang has 240.

Ok so you say you got it.........but I will attempt as well for a different way to think about it.

Torque is FORCE....a pushing effect so to speak. Lets say you got two car and both car have the same HP, both cars weigh the same. Car #1 makes 300 ft-lbs of torque, and car #2 makes 150 ft-lbs of torque. If you floor both cars and hold down the gas, car #1 will get you there before #2 as it takes longer to get the car moving. because the engine in car #2 doesn't have as much FORCE to make the wheels turn as fast.

as its been stated. MORE TORQUE IS GOOD. SO whoever made that post wasn't thinking straight if they thought that having less torque was a good thing.

[gold5000000]

so bassically from what i know, torque is for acceleration and horse power is for top speed

[Epitaph]

If you're turning a lug nut, and you need to tighten it that "extra bit", you're going to use as much torque as possible.

I can't give you a description of HP.

[5thGenCamaroChick]

I love you guys Oh wait... this is a car forum, sorry. Uh... those answers are all bada$$.

[rickerda]

If you need more information check here:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/h...ide/index.html

these guys know a bit about HP and Torque, hope it helps.

[SSE 4 2SS]

First, as a hydraulics mechanic, I had to get my head around this and I have learned a few sayings to explain it... Oh and sorry this is so long..

Torque, as mentioned before is rotational force.

HP equals acceleration speed,
Torque = acceleration force,

If you have a lug nut you are trying to tighten, and you have a wrench one foot long, if you have to apply 15 pounds of force to turn the wrench, the bolts required 15 foot pounds of force to tighten... now say the wrench is 2 feet long. To tighten the bolt to fifteen foot pounds, "you" only have to apply 7.5 pounds of force, to achieve the same tightness. Leverage is a good thing... As we all know, the tighter the bolt gets the more force it takes to turn it. HP = the speed with which we can turn the wrench.

Leverage allows for more work capacity. Thats why wrenchs get longer as the bolt size increases. bigger bolts require more force.

How does this relate to cars... Torgue is leverage, Horsepower is speed. Think of a football team. Linemen=torque... brute power... Backs and recievers = HP. (obviously oversimplified but follow me for a sec...) Torque is = to brute force, the ability to push items, ie.. cars, trucks etc. The more torque a car has the harder (not faster) it will accelerate. Again, torque is rotational force. HP is the ability to spin... Sprint... Line a lineman and a back against each other and and it's obvious who wins. Line them next to each other and obviously unless he is injured, the back will win the sprint.

All this leads to a fine balancing act... I have seen many poorly designed "hot rods" that had mismatched engine components and drivers who wondered why their 10-20,000 dollar motor was getting smoked by a more or less stock engine.
Tractor trailer trucks have upwards of 2000 ft/lb's of torque, and around 400-700 hp. Line the Camaro up next to them and see who wins. tie them back to back and see who wins that. Discount the weight of the truck as it isn't really a factor for this discussion... The argument can be made that if you put the truck motor in a caor, the moving mass still prevents if from winning despite the huge power differential. This is a clue also, as the smaller the motor is at a given power, design criteria etc, the faster it will spin..
For ex... 300 HP, 275 ft/lb's torque
400 Cubic inches,
350 cubic inches,

Exact equal specs on the dyno, put them in a car and I'll take the 350 every day as it has less moving mass to accelerate therefore it spins up faster...

A car has to have the Torque to get the wheels spinning, and HP to accelerate that spin motion.

If example a car has 500 HP, and little or no torque, pop the clutch at 8000 rpm and it may stand on it's backside, but it will fall face first with a motor that died. It did not have the torque required to spin the wheels. All that stood it up was momentum from the spinning parts, crankshaft, flywheel etc... I've actually seen this in years past at Alamo dragway... Cam designed for low rpm torque, intake manifold and other components designed for real high rpm applications, someone thinking they are getting the best of both worlds only to find they have a motor with little or no capability... Give the lineman the ball, or make the wide reciever block a 290 lb defensive end... Neither is very good...

If the car has 500 ft/lb's of torque and little or no HP, it will leave the line but it will take forever to accelerate.

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

Exact equal specs on the dyno, put them in a car and I'll take the 350 every day as it has less moving mass to accelerate therefore it spins up faster...

I completely agree, I tried to explain this in another thread and was basically told I was clueless..... It's all a matter of physics, the shorter the stroke the faster the acceleration is. That's the principle behind the Chevy 302, it was considered an " oversquare " which is just the opposite of a " stroker ". What they decided to do is have the bore larger than the stroke, in order to reach and maintain max power at a faster rate.

[5thGenCamaroChick]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

First, as a hydraulics mechanic, I had to get my head around this and I have learned a few sayings to explain it... Oh and sorry this is so long..

Torque, as mentioned before is rotational force.

HP equals acceleration speed,
Torque = acceleration force,

If you have a lug nut you are trying to tighten, and you have a wrench one foot long, if you have to apply 15 pounds of force to turn the wrench, the bolts required 15 foot pounds of force to tighten... now say the wrench is 2 feet long. To tighten the bolt to fifteen foot pounds, "you" only have to apply 7.5 pounds of force, to achieve the same tightness. Leverage is a good thing... As we all know, the tighter the bolt gets the more force it takes to turn it. HP = the speed with which we can turn the wrench.

Leverage allows for more work capacity. Thats why wrenchs get longer as the bolt size increases. bigger bolts require more force.

How does this relate to cars... Torgue is leverage, Horsepower is speed. Think of a football team. Linemen=torque... brute power... Backs and recievers = HP. (obviously oversimplified but follow me for a sec...) Torque is = to brute force, the ability to push items, ie.. cars, trucks etc. The more torque a car has the harder (not faster) it will accelerate. Again, torque is rotational force. HP is the ability to spin... Sprint... Line a lineman and a back against each other and and it's obvious who wins. Line them next to each other and obviously unless he is injured, the back will win the sprint.

All this leads to a fine balancing act... I have seen many poorly designed "hot rods" that had mismatched engine components and drivers who wondered why their 10-20,000 dollar motor was getting smoked by a more or less stock engine.
Tractor trailer trucks have upwards of 2000 ft/lb's of torque, and around 400-700 hp. Line the Camaro up next to them and see who wins. tie them back to back and see who wins that. Discount the weight of the truck as it isn't really a factor for this discussion... The argument can be made that if you put the truck motor in a caor, the moving mass still prevents if from winning despite the huge power differential. This is a clue also, as the smaller the motor is at a given power, design criteria etc, the faster it will spin..
For ex... 300 HP, 275 ft/lb's torque
400 Cubic inches,
350 cubic inches,

Exact equal specs on the dyno, put them in a car and I'll take the 350 every day as it has less moving mass to accelerate therefore it spins up faster...

A car has to have the Torque to get the wheels spinning, and HP to accelerate that spin motion.

If example a car has 500 HP, and little or no torque, pop the clutch at 8000 rpm and it may stand on it's backside, but it will fall face first with a motor that died. It did not have the torque required to spin the wheels. All that stood it up was momentum from the spinning parts, crankshaft, flywheel etc... I've actually seen this in years past at Alamo dragway... Cam designed for low rpm torque, intake manifold and other components designed for real high rpm applications, someone thinking they are getting the best of both worlds only to find they have a motor with little or no capability... Give the lineman the ball, or make the wide reciever block a 290 lb defensive end... Neither is very good...

If the car has 500 ft/lb's of torque and little or no HP, it will leave the line but it will take forever to accelerate.

Wow, I actually understood all that. Bravo, my good man.

New question: I know there are mods that increase HP, but can you make changes to an engine to increase torque, or are you stuck with what you get from the factory?

[SSE 4 2SS]

Yes there are mods to increase Torque. It's unfortunate that many people only talk about HP, as it is generally used as the measure of a cars ability.
Most of the mods made to a car, if properly considered, will increase both HP and torque. If you go through various threads, you'll see people with signatures listing 500 or so HP and 500+ torque. If properly designed components are matched, tremendous gains can be had. Very few items you add, externally or internally are going to reduce one or the other. If you add for example a free flowing exhaust, people will generally only talk about the HP gains, but at the same time, the torque was increased.
Relating back to our football players, if you increase their lung capacity, via workouts on the treadmill, you will not only increase the ability to work harder (torque), but you will most probably increase their speed(HP)
Careful and knowledgeable selection will allow for tremendous gains in both areas. It's hard to increase one without the other, but it can be done. find a knowledgeable and trustworthy person to help in parts selection for mods. What is the single best increase for performance for a computer... RAM. Spending lots of money on a new hard drive isn't. Less knowledgeable people may try to sell the big ticket items for more profit rather than the most bang for the buck items.

Hope this helps

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 5thGenCamaroChick

Wow, I actually understood all that. Bravo, my good man.

New question: I know there are mods that increase HP, but can you make changes to an engine to increase torque, or are you stuck with what you get from the factory?

Horsepower and torque aren't separate items. They are linked via rpm's.

Horesepower = (torque x engine RPM)/5252. This part of the reason why manufacturers include where an engine makes its power or torque, like 400 hp @ 5900 rpm.

Anyways, there are only 2 ways to ever increase the power of an engine: make more RPM's or generate more torque. Mostly people make more torque, and therefore more power.

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Horsepower and torque aren't separate items. They are linked via rpm's.

Horesepower = (torque x engine RPM)/5252. This part of the reason why manufacturers include where an engine makes its power or torque, like 400 hp @ 5900 rpm.

Anyways, there are only 2 ways to ever increase the power of an engine: make more RPM's or generate more torque. Mostly people make more torque, and therefore more power.

LOL... Your way off as far as the actual definition goes ...... The term horsepower originated from James Watt, the guy who invented the steam engine and who the term power was named after.