Pricing/optioning guesstimate

[stovt001]

What are your sources on this? Your numbers are way higher than anything else would indicate (such as the pricing of the Mustang and Challenger) so I'm wondering where those numbers came from. But there are tons of threads on this in the dedicated pricing forum.

[Jay]

Dude, the topic has been beat to death on here..... try using the function, you might find some things....

and what stovt just said is quite right.... your numbers seem way off.... any sources where your getting this from??

50k with markup for the first few.... wow.... i mean wow.....you minus well just get a Vette with another 10k, lol.

[2K05GT]

Originally Posted by Jay

Dude, the topic has been beat to death on here..... try using the function, you might find some things....

and what stovt just said is quite right.... your numbers seem way off.... any sources where your getting this from??

50k with markup for the first few.... wow.... i mean wow.....you minus well just get a Vette with another 10k, lol.

I am sorry, I should have searched... I just read this the other day and I called my Dad who's buddy is a GM Exec and he explaned to us about the over all cost being alot higher because of the IRS, new frame and other top end items. He was saying that the IRS may be offered only on the Top end model to save on production cost on the Base V6 and V8, IRS can add as much as 3-5K to the price of the car and with higher qaulity interior 2K, on and on it all adds up. I don't mind the less than steller interior of my mustang, I did not buy it for a plush interior, thats why we have the 300C. So I say forget about all the bling inside for now. I could care less about IRS, I don't have that many turns to navigate at high speeds. JMO

Dealers will markup, the first year on the mustang it was as high at 10K, in the DC area they were selling a Loaded GT for close to 40K. I refused to pay sticker for mine, I had to go to florida to buy it under sticker in July 05. Yea they will mark it up that why they are called Stealers.

This was the article

[stovt001]

Umm, since when has the 300 had a nice interior?

And, uhh, is your dad's friend, the "GM Exec" in no way connected to the product side of things? The Camaro is to be built on the Zeta platform, which is an IRS platform. Period. You can't substitute a solid axle to save money, as doing so would very likely incur more cost than what is saved.

As a reference point, the G8 is built off the same IRS platform, but is a full size sedan, and the GT has auto AC, upgraded sound, a V8, automatic transmission, sport suspension, and a great interior (far better than anything from Ford and Chrysler, and easily rivaling if not exceeding the Japanese) at it has an MSRP of under $30,000. So at worst I'd imagine a base V8 Camaro to easily come in under $30,000, and I would expect a pretty well equipped one to come in around $30,000 (before markups, of course) so yes, a little more than the Mustang (as we already discussed at great length in another thread) but still not nearly the prices you speculated at. I would say your source is not very well placed on this project, and is probably getting this info through the grapevine and around the watercooler through a long string of ill-informed sources.

Remember, we have Scott, and that's about the best placed source you could have. And he has said over and over again that the Camaro will be priced competitively with the Mustang, and he has never said anything about IRS being scrapped. I mean they did promise IRS, and the Mustang is universally criticized for cheaping out with the solid rear axle, so to ditch IRS would be pure suicide. To quote Scott, "Keep the Faith."

Don't worry, I'm sure IRS is here to stay and the price will be fine.

With that said, mods, I think a merge or move is in order here.

[2010_5thgen]

Originally Posted by 2K05GT

From what I have read GM is having a hard time getting the price of the V6 Camaro down to $26,000 -$30,000. The top Camaro is supposed to be in the $36,000+ range. Then add in the dealer markup and you’re talking $50,000 for the first ones.

Should Chevy save some money and drop the IRS?
Maybe go with a cheaper Engine ?
This was Ford's dilemma with the Mustang. Live Axle and Plastic Interior and skimping out on the "My Color" dash lights to only the gauges, saved on overall production costs. Whats your thoughts?

hahaha 50grand?!?!?!?! even the new challanger with the 6.1 didnt sell for 50g's. i think i would rework some numbers if i were you.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Merged.

Here's the breakdown on the Camaro; and I have multiple sources, just too many at this point to post up (though, I appreciate you posting yours up - I'll address that in a second). How do I know that all of what I'm about to say is within 10% of the absolute truth? Because if the Camaro doesn't fall within the coming criteria...it will Die. And GM isn't going to let such a new car die.

1: The Camaro MUST be priced 'near' a Mustang. yes, chances are it will be more expensive - but you muct pay for better .

2: The Camaro WILL have IRS, and be 99.9% sure it will be on all models. Zeta isn't a Camaro-only architecture, as a Mustang IRS probably would have been. It was designed to be a global, fully modifiable body structure. That right there lowers cost much lower than you might expect to see for an IRS setup.

3: There WILL be a V8 to be had for under 30k. this was said somewhere as fact...I just can't remember where, or when.

As for your source...well, to put it bluntly - I lost all respect for Consumer guide (not that I had much to begin with) when it was exposed that they were just including Toyotas as reccomended buys...without even testing the damn things!!! Second, it's being hosted by Howstuffworks...I don't count on them much for pricing on upcoming cars.

Finally - it was said before, we've got Scott Settlemire, the Fbodfather. Who is an unbelievably nice person - as many can attest to, and who is virtually invaluble on the Camaro scene...so If there's anything else that you may have heard, please post it up - and we can try and 'Mythbust' it.


On a side note, I'd like to thank everybody for maintaining a general level of ...as I noticed a few of you may have wanted to say something more

[stovt001]

Good point about the wide use of Zeta Dragon. Zeta will indeed be much more widely used than the Mustang's platform. Lets see, G8 and variants, Camaro, possibly the next Impala, possibly a Buick and Cadillac, Vauxhalls, Holdens...Yeah, they're getting mileage out of this thing, so the economies of scale are going to be pretty good. I will definitely agree that it will probably be a bit more expensive than the Mustang, but not too much more. And the small extra cost? Worth it. Fear not!

[DGthe3]

It would probably be more expensive for them to make the camaro with two suspension setups than it would be to go with only IRS.

[2K05GT]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Umm, since when has the 300 had a nice interior?

And, uhh, is your dad's friend, the "GM Exec" in no way connected to the product side of things? The Camaro is to be built on the Zeta platform, which is an IRS platform. Period. You can't substitute a solid axle to save money, as doing so would very likely incur more cost than what is saved.

My Dad's friend is a VP Finance in Detroit they use to work together at IBM 15 years ago, he may not be connected to the project but sees all the cost associated with it..

Well our 300C has a very nice interior, wood grain dash, leather heated seats heating and cooling cup holders dual air and climate controls Ect..

DGthe3:
as far as having two axle offerings the Mustang already has this worked out
The Mustang platform is shared with the Lincoln LS, T-Bird and laguar S-Type
which are both IRS and MacPherson struts designs.

The new Mustang's architecture is a clever variant on the same rigid, high-tech platform used under the Lincoln LS, Jaguar S-Type, and Ford Thunderbird. The Mustang's new body shares parts with those other models, also by using this already proven platform that will increase the Mustang's torsional and bending strength, decrease its forward weight bias, increase steering precision, smooth the ride, and reduce shake and vibration. The car's dimensions (with the exception of a longer wheelbase) and weight have stayed the same or less than previous mustangs, despite the additional structural reinforcement and added safety equipment.

Unlike the current Lincoln LS, the 2005 Mustang is offered with a live rear axle, an independent rear suspension will be an option in 2009, This ensures Ford will always be able to offer an affordable ($20,000) V-6 Mustang for price-conscious Mustang shoppers. The other core customers concerned about keeping a rugged, simple, live axle are the Mustang enthusiasts who evaluate performance a quarter mile at a time. For drag racers, the live axle's anvil-like toughness and relative ease of changing its rearend ratios far outweigh the handling and ride advantages of an independent system.

In 2009 more sophisticated, more expensive versions of the Mustang will get IRS. With unequal-length control arms and coil springs, it's based on an improved and strengthened version of what's now used in the Lincoln LS and is already designed into the current Mustang.

[stovt001]

Notice the first line of your quote. The Mustang's platform is a variant of those other platforms. The Camaro won't be on a variant of the Zeta platform; it will be on the real Zeta platform. The platform variant is kinda like the difference between Kappa and Alpha. Alpha uses many Kappa parts and develops further on the basics, but it is still not quite the same. Also with that article, I have not heard it mentioned anywhere else that the Mustang will have an IRS option in 09. What is the source of that? I can't think of any car at all that offers the option between the two. I mean I follow the major auto news and rumors website, and if there was one ounce of credibility to that rumor you'd think they would be all over it. With the way these cars are produced, I just can't imagine how offering both solid rear axle and IRS options would be in any way cost effective.

As far as being the VP of Finance, that can be a lot of things. I'm in a corporate finance position myself, and there are some finance teams that overlook operations, and others that have nothing to do with operations, the products, anything like that that concerns the consumers. GM Finance guys are notorious cost cutters, so surely everyone in his department would love to do anything to keep the cost down. Just because some finance guys considered it doesn't mean it is likely.

Finally, yes, the 300 has some good interior features to check off on a list, but the execution, the materials, the fit and finish, they just aren't there. The wood grain trim is fake, obviously, the plastics could be supplied by Fischer Price, you could loose a small child through the panel gaps, and it just isn't put together well at all. Chrysler group is notorious for probably the worst interiors on the market today. They offer plenty of innovative features, but it is not a quality product. I like some of their cars in general, so I sat in some at the auto show. Boy, I could not get out of there fast enough. No other car made me think that standing outside the car was more comfortable than sitting inside of it.

[2K05GT]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Notice the first line of your quote. The Mustang's platform is a variant of those other platforms. The Camaro won't be on a variant of the Zeta platform; it will be on the real Zeta platform. The platform variant is kinda like the difference between Kappa and Alpha. Alpha uses many Kappa parts and develops further on the basics, but it is still not quite the same. Also with that article, I have not heard it mentioned anywhere else that the Mustang will have an IRS option in 09. What is the source of that? I can't think of any car at all that offers the option between the two. I mean I follow the major auto news and rumors website, and if there was one ounce of credibility to that rumor you'd think they would be all over it. With the way these cars are produced, I just can't imagine how offering both solid rear axle and IRS options would be in any way cost effective.
Check out the link several people have swapped out the 2004 SVT Cobra IRS to Live axle, the mounting points are the same it just the axle thats different the mustang did it in 2003-2004.

OK OK on the Corporate BS my source is hearsay Fine...

Finally, yes, the 300 has some good interior features to check off on a list, but the execution, the materials, the fit and finish, they just aren't there. The wood grain trim is fake, obviously, the plastics could be supplied by Fischer Price, you could loose a small child through the panel gaps, and it just isn't put together well at all. Chrysler group is notorious for probably the worst interiors on the market today. They offer plenty of innovative features, but it is not a quality product. I like some of their cars in general, so I sat in some at the auto show. Boy, I could not get out of there fast enough. No other car made me think that standing outside the car was more comfortable than sitting inside of it.
I personally do not Like the 300C But my wife diggs it.. It's her car so the Woman wins .

http://www.mustang-blogs.com/2006/03...stang-concept/

2009 Mustang Chassis:

The “DEW-lite” chassis the 2005+ Mustang rides on was a significant investment for Ford even though it was derived from the existing floor pan that carried the Lincoln LS, Thunderbird, and Jaguar S-Type. Significant changes had to be made to lighten up both the weight and cost to fit within the Mustang’s needs. We see an evolution of the current chassis to continue under the new Mustang but with a few key changes. An independent rear suspension (IRS) was initially planned for the 2005 Mustang but notably missing when it arrived on the showroom floors. Why? It costs too much. While Ford has said that customers “don’t want it”, and that “it is not necessary, blah, blah”, they are well aware that the competition from GM and Chrysler are going to have it. They are aware that customers want it and that it’s a necessity to win over import buyers that would otherwise shop for a Nissan 350Z or other comparable sports cars. Thus, the next Mustang will have IRS if it is to be taken seriously among its peers both stateside and from abroad.

More on IRS for 09

While the IRS technology exchanges with Ford Australia may bring a superior IRS into the 2009 Mustang redesign. Many mustang followers would like to see reduced weight and body roll factored into the 2009 Mustang redesign efforts as well.

http://www.themustangnews.com/carnews/st-06_2009mst.htm

http://www.fordfaqs.com/2009-ford-mu...ing-stage.html


Here is an IRS Option for the 2005 Mustang

[treaded_thunder09Z28]

Originally Posted by KILLER74Z28

Ok, before anyone gets to excited remember this thread is three months old, from another website, and totally fictional. That said, I think the orignal poster of this thread is way out in left field!!! What do you guys think? I want details people!!!

As many of you saw a few months ago I put together a model and options list for the new Camaro.

Since then, different models, engines and content have been mentioned here.

So I’ve decided to update this thread. For the prices I started with current Mustang base prices, adjusted to 2009 dollars by adding 2% a year and then added $700 since I believe the Camaro will cost between $500 and $1000 more.

Notice how many engines I added

From everything I’ve read here and the research I’ve done this should be damn close to what we will see in a few years.

Base V6 Camaro
MSRP* $ 21,750.00 (base price) to $ 36,620.00 (fully optioned)

Standard Options:
• Active Handling System: improves traction and enhances vehicle stability
• Brakes: four-wheel antilock disc standard
• Engine: 240 hp 3.9L 3900 V6
• Tires: front and rear, P235/40-17,
• Wheels: 17- x 8.5-inch front and rear, five-spoke, silver-painted, aluminum
• Six-speed manual transmission
• Air conditioning
• Power windows
• Remote Keyless Entry
• Cruise control
• Cloth bucket seats
• CD player

Optional Base V6:
• PREMIUM PACKAGE- includes dual-zone air conditioning, automatic power Leather seating with heated 6-way power driver seat and front passenger and Head-Up Display with on-board computer (MPG, outside temp, compass etc.) $1515
• LIMITED SLIP REAR DIFFERENTIAL $195
• Automatic Transmission $850
• XM Satellite Radio $325
• OnStar $695
• Leather seating with 6-way power driver seat $1015
• Bose Monsoon Premium sound system with in-dash 6 CD changer and MP3 connection $600
• Wheels: 17- x 8.5-inch front and rear, five-spoke, polished, aluminum $600
• Convertible $4000
• Power Sunroof $2000
• Floor mats: carpeted $75
• RALLY SPORT PACKAGE- 310hp HF V6 with DOD, dual exhaust, 17" aluminum polished wheels with P245/40-17 tires, RS badges, fog lamps, body-color grille inserts, front and rear fascia extensions $3000


Super Sport Camaro (SS)
MSRP* $ 28,145.00 (base price) to $ 41,745.00 (fully optioned)

• Active Handling System: improves traction and enhances vehicle stability
• Brakes: four-wheel antilock disc standard
• Engine: 420 hp 6.0L 6000 V8 LS3 with DOD
• Duel exhaust
• Tires: front and rear, P245/40ZR-18,
• Wheels: 18- x 8.5-inch front and rear, five-spoke, silver-painted, aluminum
• Six-speed manual transmission
• Air conditioning
• Power windows
• Remote Keyless Entry
• Cruise control
• Cloth bucket seats
• CD player
• Fog lamps
• SS grille
• SS hood with scoop
• SS front and rear fascia
• SS Spoiler
• LIMITED SLIP REAR DIFFERENTIAL
• Floor mats: carpeted

Optional SS:
• PREMIUM PACKAGE- includes dual-zone air conditioning, automatic power Leather seating with heated 6-way power driver seat and front passenger and Head-Up Display with on-board computer (MPG, outside temp, compass etc.) $1515
• PERFORMANCE PACKAGE- performance handling suspension with stiffer springs, stabilizer bars, performance axle ratio, chrome tail pipes $2000
• Automatic Transmission $850
• XM Satellite Radio $325
• OnStar $695
• Leather seating with 6-way power driver seat $1015
• Bose Monsoon Premium sound system with in-dash 6 CD changer and MP3 connection $600
• Wheels: 18- x 8.5-inch front and rear, five-spoke, polished, aluminum $600
• Convertible $4000
• Power Sunroof $2000


Z28 Camaro (Limited Production)
MSRP* $ 39,250.00 (base price) to $ 44,985.00 (fully optioned)

• Active Handling System: improves traction and enhances vehicle stability
• Brakes: four-wheel antilock disc standard
• Performance large cross drilled rotors
• performance handling suspension with stiffer springs, stabilizer bars, performance axle ratio
• Engine: 525 hp Supercharged 6.0L 6000 V8 LS9
• Special Z28 exhaust outlets, polished, four-inch stainless-steel tips
• Tires: front, P275/40ZR-19,
• Tires: rear, P295/40ZR-19,
• Wheels: 18- x 9.5-inch front and rear, five-spoke, silver-painted, aluminum
• Six-speed manual transmission
• Air conditioning
• Power windows
• Remote Keyless Entry
• Cruise control
• Cloth bucket seats
• CD player
• Fog lamps
• Z28 grille
• Z28 hood with scoop
• Z28 front and rear fascia
• Z28 Spoiler
• LIMITED SLIP REAR DIFFERENTIAL
• Floor mats: carpeted

Optional Z28:
• PREMIUM PACKAGE- includes dual-zone air conditioning, automatic power Leather seating with heated 6-way power driver seat and front passenger and Head-Up Display with on-board computer (MPG, outside temp, compass etc.) $1515
• XM Satellite Radio $325
• OnStar $695
• Leather seating with 6-way power driver seat $1015
• Bose Monsoon Premium sound system with in-dash 6 CD changer and MP3 connection $600
• Wheels: 19- x 9.5-inch front and rear, five-spoke, polished, aluminum $600
• Power Sunroof $2000

I sure hope that this is going to be close to the real thing, i have some close ties to the gm plant in canada that is building this car. As soon as i find out, i will let you all know.

[TAG UR IT]

Personally, I'd say no. We haven't a clue as to what is exactly going into this Camaro or price. Do you think a sunroof for the Camaro is going to run you an extra $2K? I don't think so...and know I would NEVER order it if that's what GM charged.

[TheMadHatter99]

The sunroof price caught my eye too. I certainly hope it isn't that much...I could probably order an aftermarket sunroof and have it installed for cheaper than that.