Remote Tuning for FI

[MACE_ENG]

Originally Posted by elsololobo02

So does repairable mean the cam bank 1 being off by two degrees is fixable by tapping a hole?Sorry dont understand what your above statement means? Can you dumb it down for me and have you actually billed Tracy, even at the discounted rate? Just tyring to understand what is going on and understand why Tracy sold me cams that don't work properly

"So does repairable mean the cam bank 1 being off by two degrees is fixable by tapping a hole? Sorry dont understand what your above statement means?"
No, unrelated. This is basically for the bolt at the end of the sprocket.

"Can you dumb it down for me and have you actually billed Tracy, even at the discounted rate?"
The agreement basically was when he needed to use them we would get paid.

"Just tyring to understand what is going on and understand why Tracy sold me cams that don't work properly "
In his defence, the discovery is very recent on our end likely after you purchase the cams off him. However if he was in correspondence with us about making payment for these cams, we would have been able to have offered advice/warning about such an installation if this makes sense.

[elsololobo02]

Originally Posted by MACE_ENG

"So does repairable mean the cam bank 1 being off by two degrees is fixable by tapping a hole? Sorry dont understand what your above statement means?"
No, unrelated. This is basically for the bolt at the end of the sprocket.

"Can you dumb it down for me and have you actually billed Tracy, even at the discounted rate?"
The agreement basically was when he needed to use them we would get paid.

"Just tyring to understand what is going on and understand why Tracy sold me cams that don't work properly "
In his defence, the discovery is very recent on our end likely after you purchase the cams off him. However if he was in correspondence with us about making payment for these cams, we would have been able to have offered advice/warning about such an installation if this makes sense.

Ok, so when (date) did you know about the cam issue bank 1 off by two degrees? I purchased the cams on 26 June 2013 and installed on 27 June 2013; roughly 30 days ago. If you knew you had an issue with the cams why didn't you contact your vendors to let them know not to install the cams into customer cars? Maybe a recall would be in order?

By your above statement your kind of stating that if Rx would have contacted you about payment for the cams you would of then informed them about the problem. Thinking about this from a business perspective is, why would you send out a product to vendor without at least getting the wholsale payment (dealer cost) upfront plus shipping? Makes no sense unless it is a R&D venture. Problem with that is, is the consumer vehicles are the R&D test models.

I didn't sign up nor purchase products to be a companies R&D car. The R&D process should be... testing, evaluation, adjustments, confirmation testing, production and then..... marketed to the consumer. Granted even the big auto makers make mistakes, issue recalls and fix the problems. But at least they notify the consumer and or dealerships.

If I would of been told by either the installer, manufacturer or drop shipper that the product I am buying has not been fully tested, then I would be taking a risk wittingly and then would make a descision to either go forward with the product or decide not to get the product installed depending on the level of risk I would be willing to accept. That being said I would have never of purchased the cams!

How many other set of cams for the LLT V6 (NA & FI) Camaro have been sold and installed with the cam bank 1 issue? No one knows which grind they have unless they bought it from you direct or returned an old set for the new ones.

So here I am... In the middle of a mis-communication drill between Rx, MACE and Trifecta. I can't return the old sets to you because Rx hasn't paid for them, I can't trust Rx to give me a refund because they haven't paid you, Paypal is suspended for Rx and I don't know if a check from Rx will clear! On top of all this NO ONE WILL TUNE MY CAR and I have to pay more money to fix all of the mistakes!! WTF.

[MACE_ENG]

Originally Posted by elsololobo02

Ok, so when (date) did you know about the cam issue bank 1 off by two degrees? I purchased the cams on 26 June 2013 and installed on 27 June 2013; roughly 30 days ago. If you knew you had an issue with the cams why didn't you contact your vendors to let them know not to install the cams into customer cars? Maybe a recall would be in order?

By your above statement your kind of stating that if Rx would have contacted you about payment for the cams you would of then informed them about the problem. Thinking about this from a business perspective is, why would you send out a product to vendor without at least getting the wholsale payment (dealer cost) upfront plus shipping? Makes no sense unless it is a R&D venture. Problem with that is, is the consumer vehicles are the R&D test models.

I didn't sign up nor purchase products to be a companies R&D car. The R&D process should be... testing, evaluation, adjustments, confirmation testing, production and then..... marketed to the consumer. Granted even the big auto makers make mistakes, issue recalls and fix the problems. But at least they notify the consumer and or dealerships.

If I would of been told by either the installer, manufacturer or drop shipper that the product I am buying has not been fully tested, then I would be taking a risk wittingly and then would make a descision to either go forward with the product or decide not to get the product installed depending on the level of risk I would be willing to accept. That being said I would have never of purchased the cams!

How many other set of cams for the LLT V6 (NA & FI) Camaro have been sold and installed with the cam bank 1 issue? No one knows which grind they have unless they bought it from you direct or returned an old set for the new ones.

So here I am... In the middle of a mis-communication drill. I can't return the old sets to you because Rx hasn't paid for them, I can't trust Rx to give me a refund because they haven't paid you, Paypal is suspended for Rx and I don't know if a check from Rx will clear! On top of all this NO ONE WILL TUNE MY CAR and I have to pay more money to fix all of the mistakes!! WTF.

“Ok, so when (date) did you know about the cam issue bank 1 off by two degrees? I purchased the cams on 26 June 2013 and installed on 27 June 2013; roughly 30 days ago. If you knew you had an issue with the cams why didn't you contact your vendors to let them know not to install the cams into customer cars? Maybe a recall would be in order?”
The cams were tested with success on Yellowglide’s car, which Tracy personally did. I assumed that the issue was only isolated to Australian vehicles only. I’m assuming that it doesn’t appear to be the case.

“By your above statement your kind of stating that if Rx would have contacted you about payment for the cams you would of then informed them about the problem.”
Possibly yes, based on some of our recent finding, but as I mentioned above I assumed it wasn’t a problem for US vehicles. I’m 100% sure Tracy wouldn’t have sent out the cams if there were any issues, which would have been a fair assumption to make given the success of Yellowglide’s car.

“Thinking about this from a business perspective is, why would you send out a product to vendor without at least getting the wholsale payment (dealer cost) upfront plus shipping?”
We always request for payment upfront. These cams were supposed to end up as scrap, however they were salvageable. Given that there were salvageable by being able to be re-tapped (this was the only issue), I was happy to receive payment once they were sold.

“Makes no sense unless it is a R&D venture. Problem with that is, is the consumer vehicles are the R&D test models.”
It was assumed that R&D was done and dusted on Yellowglide’s car, however we were having problems with the Commodore.

“I didn't sign up nor purchase products to be a companies R&D car. The R&D process should be... testing, evaluation, adjustments, confirmation testing, produced and then... marketed. Granted even the big auto makers make mistakes, issue recalls and fix the problems. But at least they notify the consumer.”
As per above, it was assumed that the R&D was concluded for the US markets. We always notified all customers and pay for freight etc, for our customers worldwide of any known problems. A good example of this was with initial Camaro cam customers who purchased 226 cams. We made them aware and swapped them over for 210 at our expense. In light of this new issue, we now have to send off a cylinder head set of cams to solve the problem.

“If I would of been told by either the installer, manufacturer or drop shipper that the product I am buying has not been fully tested, then I would be taking a risk wittingly and then would make a descision to either go forward with the product or decide not to get the product installed depending on the level of risk I would be willing to accept. That being said I would have never of purchased the cams!”
I completely understand where you’re coming from. Hopefully what I’ve written has cleared up a few things for you.

“How many other set of cams for the LLT V6 (NA & FI) Camaro have been sold and installed with the cam bank 1 issue? No one knows which grind they have unless they bought it from you direct.”
4 sets of LLT cams have been sold in the US. Only two sets have been fitted at this point in time, one on Yellowglide’s car and yours. The other two sets are waiting on revised LLT cams from us at the moment. What I can’t stress enough though, was that I genuinely assumed that LLT cam development for the US was finalised (read: successful). It seems that it wasn’t the case.

"So here I am... In the middle of a mis-communication drill. I can't return the old sets to you because Rx hasn't paid for them, I can't trust Rx to give me a refund because they haven't paid you, Paypal is suspended for Rx and I don't know if a check from Rx will clear!"
Maybe Tracy might pay I don't know. Based on others feedback though, I wasn't going to hold my breath about these cams though.

"On top of all this NO ONE WILL TUNE MY CAR and I have to pay more money to fix all of the mistakes!! WTF."
I'm optimistic that this will change in time.

For the record, as I’ve mentioned in a previous email, if we’re paid for these we’ll send out replacements ASAP.

Above all though, I deeply sympathize with the hassles you're having at the moment. If you think we can be off assistance, please feel free to email us. On this note, if people have any questions or concerns about our products or services, please email us direct as I don't get much time to jump on forums these days.

Kindest Regards,
Steve

[elsololobo02]

The cams were tested with success on Yellowglide’s car, which Tracy personally did. I assumed that the issue was only isolated to Australian vehicles only. I’m assuming that it doesn’t appear to be the case".

I looked at Yellowglide’s thread and he was having issues with the tune or at least that is what the thread read like. People have been asking for updates and the thread has been silent. Tell tale sign that something isn't right.

"We always request for payment upfront. These cams were supposed to end up as scrap, however they were salvageable. Given that there were salvageable by being able to be re-tapped (this was the only issue), I was happy to receive payment once they were sold".

I didn't pay top dollar for hardware that is considered scrap or salvageable plus installation costs. Re-tapping doesn't fix the cam bank 1 issue.

"4 sets of LLT cams have been sold in the US. Only two sets have been fitted at this point in time, one on Yellowglide’s car and yours. The other two sets are waiting on revised LLT cams from us at the moment. What I can’t stress enough though, was that I genuinely assumed that LLT cam development for the US was finalised (read: successful). It seems that it wasn’t the case".

I have two of the four sets. One set installed on my car and one set sitting in my garage.

"On top of all this NO ONE WILL TUNE MY CAR and I have to pay more money to fix all of the mistakes!! WTF."
"I'm optimistic that this will change in time".

So where are you deriving this optimism? I can't get a single word back from Trifecta (other than they won’t tune it with cams). I sent them e-mails being completely professional, almost begging to take a look at my data logs. Regardless, a tune can't fix the cam bank 1 issue.

Is Dimsport the answer? I even called them (Technician named Simone) and they didn't want to get into specifics and I even had a co-worker who speaks fluent Italian speaking with them. They stated the software for the LLT isn’t ready and they wouldn’t give a time frame.

Assumptions are kicking my As_ right now and are costing me a lot of money at my expense. I do appreciate that you are trying to help me out and that in itself is valued added. I appreciate that you sympathize with me but it doesn't negate the fact that assumptions are why I am in this predicament.

I don't like to be product development unless I know up front and get a cut of the action for being a lab rat. Not just towards you but Rx as well. Testing was not fully completed in my opinion.

[MACE_ENG]

Originally Posted by elsololobo02

The cams were tested with success on Yellowglide’s car, which Tracy personally did. I assumed that the issue was only isolated to Australian vehicles only. I’m assuming that it doesn’t appear to be the case".

I looked at Yellowglide’s thread and he was having issues with the tune or at least that is what the thread read like. People have been asking for updates and the thread has been silent. Tell tale sign that something isn't right.

"We always request for payment upfront. These cams were supposed to end up as scrap, however they were salvageable. Given that there were salvageable by being able to be re-tapped (this was the only issue), I was happy to receive payment once they were sold".

I didn't pay top dollar for hardware that is considered scrap or salvageable plus installation costs. Re-tapping doesn't fix the cam bank 1 issue.

"4 sets of LLT cams have been sold in the US. Only two sets have been fitted at this point in time, one on Yellowglide’s car and yours. The other two sets are waiting on revised LLT cams from us at the moment. What I can’t stress enough though, was that I genuinely assumed that LLT cam development for the US was finalised (read: successful). It seems that it wasn’t the case".

I have two of the four sets. One set installed on my car and one set sitting in my garage.

"On top of all this NO ONE WILL TUNE MY CAR and I have to pay more money to fix all of the mistakes!! WTF."
"I'm optimistic that this will change in time".

So where are you deriving this optimism? I can't get a single word back from Trifecta (other than they won’t tune it with cams). I sent them e-mails being completely professional, almost begging to take a look at my data logs. Regardless, a tune can't fix the cam bank 1 issue.

Is Dimsport the answer? I even called them (Technician named Simone) and they didn't want to get into specifics and I even had a co-worker who speaks fluent Italian speaking with them. They stated the software for the LLT isn’t ready and they wouldn’t give a time frame.

Assumptions are kicking my As_ right now and are costing me a lot of money at my expense. I do appreciate that you are trying to help me out and that in itself is valued added. I appreciate that you sympathize with me but it doesn't negate the fact that assumptions are why I am in this predicament.

I don't like to be product development unless I know up front and get a cut of the action for being a lab rat. Not just towards you but Rx as well. Testing was not fully completed in my opinion.

The feedback that I'd been given about Yellowglides car with cams was that we'd "nailed it" from RX. We then proceeded to make another 10 sets of these cams, due to RX being a reputable workshop and V6 expert. As a result of this we've had a number of issues in Australia with this product based on these findings and scrapped about half.

I heard that there were issues with his car after the heads were installed, however as it wasn't our product nor was advice from me us I didn't follow up on it. Coupled with that fact that I started losing interest in that thread as I felt it was being hijacked by other vendors.

In regards to the cams, if there were tapped properly and we were paid for them, I would most certainly honor any warranty with them 100%

In regards to the number of cams sets you have I don't know. From my knowledge Yellowglide still has our cams running, but I may be wrong as I haven't been keeping up to date with developments, nor has anyone else raised these issues with us.

In regards to the calibration development side of things for this hardware (cams), I am optimistic it will get sorted sooner or later. It will involve more time and closed (non public) development work though. It will happen eventually, I cannot give a time frame on this though.

I sincerely did trust Tracy's judgement with this project development, along with a number of others along the way. All of which have turned out to be expensive lemons for me personally, we're talking circa 60k here around 2 years of development time on off, compromised rep etc. So I definitely do understand your frustration for something that I though was sorted long ago.

Kindest Regards,
Steve

[esponda]

Confirming bank 1 issue :/ Not sure if its the same issue. Seems it needs to be machined slightly.

[MACE_ENG]

Originally Posted by esponda

Confirming bank 1 issue :/ Not sure if its the same issue. Seems it needs to be machined slightly.

It would be the same issue as elsololobo02. In your case, as discussed via email, will sorted out with another set of cams ASAP. Fortunately have found out you can change cams on these engines without taking the front timing cover off, which is a huge win as it more than halves the installation time!

[esponda]

Originally Posted by MACE_ENG

It would be the same issue as elsololobo02. In your case, as discussed via email, will sorted out with another set of cams ASAP. Fortunately have found out you can change cams on these engines without taking the front timing cover off, which is a huge win as it more than halves the installation time!

Awesome! Would these be sent to T and T Performance from Australia or from Tracy? Since my car is currently apart sooner is better haha. I'm changing the timing chain so its coming off anyways.

Also inbox is full.

[MACE_ENG]

Originally Posted by esponda

Awesome! Would these be sent to T and T Performance from Australia or from Tracy? Since my car is currently apart sooner is better haha. I'm changing the timing chain so its coming off anyways.

Also inbox is full.

You give me an address and I'll send them to it, no problems. These will be coming direct from us.

I now leave my inbox intentionally full such that people need to contact us directly from our site. We're able to offer much if this an inconvenience.

[esponda]

Email sent.

From conversations between Tracy and Tim he is wondering if you might have sent me Cams for the LFX instead of the LLT? Is that a possibility?

[elsololobo02]

Steve,

Thank you for explaining evertything thouroughly. I am not trying to beat you up publically, I am just trying to figure out why this happened; specifically with the cams (The turbo is a seperate issue between Rx and me). A lot of good information has been gleaned from my situation and hope, if at very least, it makes people better educated to make informed decisions.

I am very happy to see you working with your customers and hope that you and esponda get everything sorted out!

[esponda]

So since my cams were no good I contacted Tracy to check the sets he has and if they don't have the two known issues. Apparently the only set he has is from 6 months and probably isn't the most recent grind. So I'm not sure where to go with this at this point or just call it a lose. Apparently my current set of cams are pretty battered up...but this is looking like an expensive upset.

[elsololobo02]

Originally Posted by esponda

So since my cams were no good I contacted Tracy to check the sets he has and if they don't have the two known issues. Apparently the only set he has is from 6 months and probably isn't the most recent grind. So I'm not sure where to go with this at this point or just call it a lose. Apparently my current set of cams are pretty battered up...but this is looking like an expensive upset.

Esponda... I thought you bought your set of cams directly from MACE? Did you fully complete the install on the cams? Just asking since you said they are battered up.

[esponda]

my stock cams are pretty battered. The cams I got from mace the thruster ring is too small on bank1 and doesn't fit properly. I asked Tracy to check his for both this issue and the the degrees being off. The cams he has from MACE were made six months ago and are supposedly no good. Seems he wasn't aware of a degree issue but they had my issue.