Camaro VS Mustang Mega Thread

[fazm]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

Yep and the insiders at Ford said in development the 5.0 made 475 hp on the engine dyno. Then it was detuned for production. And by looking at the numbers gained from tuning that looks to be pretty accurate.

close, 468

[cmoney2007]

That's crazy though quad exhaust and unless I looked at it wrong emissions is going to love this. Sick looking Mustang though if I were getting a Boss it'd be a '69

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

But I will still get a kick out of reading these posts...:

Because of our biases.

[assasinator]

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

This has gotten rather humorous.

BTW....this winter/spring, I will be cross-shopping a GT or Boss with an 09/10 low mileage Vette, and perhaps even an 06/07 Z06 (if prices continue to fall like they have been). However, even though I will be seriously considering all of them, I don't consider any Mustang to be a direct competitor with any Vette. At all.

What I won't be considering is the SS (it won't magically drop 300 lbs this spring), Challenger (it won't magically drop 500 lbs this spring), GT500 (done the blower thing, over it), or Z28 (see GT500, and assuming it is available then). For that matter, it is likely I won't seriously consider the Boss either due to the inevitable markups on what will likely be a pretty hefty MSRP.

In the end, it is all personal preference based on my own wants, needs, and biases (and make no mistake...we are ALL biased).

But I will still get a kick out of reading these posts...which is one of the reasons I'm here.

i'm hip with what you said. if they make the 2012 vette look like i hope they will, ill get one. otherwise the CTS-v is still the car. i thought about an 07CTS-v but the rear end still bothers me. its fixed in the 09+. if the vette looks like a ferrari, then the decision is made for me. no thanks. i feel like the vette should look back to its history for its next model.

my dream car is a ferrari mondial. i need a stable for all the cars we are collecting. as i get older i want more variety.

my best car is the 02 deville. impeccable looks. great ride. quiet. ive read reviews of the C6Z and they say its too raw in the handling/acceleration mode. the C5Z is getting older now. and broken rear ends are no good for me either. caddy then the ferrari.



FAZM, you are right. 468hp.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Dont waste your time. I have said it about 100 times in 100 different threads. Lots of people will still just simply disregard this anyways...but if one were to look into the NEW SAE certification process etc. I'm sure they would change their tune....but then again maybe not lol.

Here are some engine dyno tests of the ls3 and l99. Engine dyno with headers and no accessories...~480hp for the ls3.

http://www.**************************-...l#post13882913

You realize his post didn't support yours at all right?

I know exactly what the NEW sae certification process entails. It is still not impossible to fudge the numbers lower and, like I said before, no car is required to be sae certified for power anyway. Did he not just show you that the sae certified power for the mustang is actually higher than what Ford claims? Isn't that underrating??? Was this whole discussion not about the Boss 302, a car that has NOT been sae certified, and is not required to be(none are!)? The whole point was that the Boss seems likely to be underrated and you said the new sae certification process makes that impossible.... That's not the truth.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

You realize his post didn't support yours at all right?

I know exactly what the NEW sae certification process entails. It is still not impossible to fudge the numbers lower and, like I said before, no car is required to be sae certified for power anyway. Did he not just show you that the sae certified power for the mustang is actually higher than what Ford claims? Isn't that underrating??? Was this whole discussion not about the Boss 302, a car that has NOT been sae certified, and is not required to be(none are!)? The whole point was that the Boss seems likely to be underrated and you said the new sae certification process makes that impossible.... That's not the truth.

LOL...no it showed that they have to be within 1% of the rating...just like the certification entails. They could have rated the car at 420hp as well (hmmm and what do you know...430hp ls3 in vette and 426hp in camaro...seems like people are following the rules doesnt it). I dont call 4 hp under rating. That could easily be the difference in a dyno or a given engine...give me a break. Why else would they allow a 1% variance...

And no...I dont see how it didnt support my post...and I think you are losing your mind my friend. The only thing I see is that it upset you to see this hard data LOL

I didnt say the Boss was going to be certified...in fact I ASKED if it was. I was implying if it was SAE certified it is in fact impossible for the car to be underrated. You obviously still do not understand the certification if you are still tryikng to argue about it .

Being optional and being valid have nothing to do with each other...once again quit grasping for straws. I said the certification process puts an end to under rating...obviously only if it has been done to the motor...how else? LMAO

Let me spell it out for you....AGAIN

If in fact the certification process is done to the Boss (like I said before)it is in fact impossible for the Boss to be under rated (more than + or - 1% as the certification entails). If it is not then obviously it can be....WHICH I ALSO STATED previously.

What was the point of your post? did you even read my posts? Your entire post was pointless and did nothing but try and skew what I had said before. Your obviously just upset because your mythical 5.0 isnt under rated.

[snakekiller]

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

The days of different V8's are over huh? So Ford can do it but GM can't? That seems to be what you are saying in your post. The Boss 5.0 is different from the regular 5.0. GM can just as easily bump up HP for a certain model of SS for 2012 if they choose. As it stands there are 2 V8 options with different HP ratings for the SS. GM can play the same game as ford and offer an SS with a dry sump oiling system (already in the GS), different intake/exhaust (borrowed from the Z28), tweak the tune and add a gear. That would easily offer competition for the Boss. Seeing as we have no solid proof as to what GM has in store in 2012 my predictions could be as valid as yours that GM has nothing else other than the vert and Z.

yes GM can do all those things, but hey don't have to. the Camaro has been out for a year, switching engines doesn't make sense. the Mustang was force to rush its 4.6L replacement, Both 5.0L were developed at the same time. they were already planning the revival of the 302. GM on the other hand has a z/28 and vert cumming up, their sales will continue to rise with both introductions, there no need to retaliate. by 2013 is where GM need to retaliate, Shelby's contract ends in 2013 and there might be a SVT Cobra revival cumming on its 20th anniversary.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by snakekiller

yes GM can do all those things, but hey don't have to. the Camaro has been out for a year, switching engines doesn't make sense. the Mustang was force to rush its 4.6L replacement, Both 5.0L were developed at the same time. they were already planning the revival of the 302. GM on the other hand has a z/28 and vert cumming up, their sales will continue to rise with both introductions, there no need to retaliate. by 2013 is where GM need to retaliate, Shelby's contract ends in 2013 and there might be a SVT Cobra revival cumming on its 20th anniversary.

They dont have to change engines...but it is about time. The LS3 has been in the vette since 2008. The LS2 only lasted from 05-07.

I would be very surprised if we didnt see some revisions to the ls3, a switch to DI or a entirely new motor. At the least some gear options etc or performance package

Dodge even stepped it up and their financial situation is no better. If chevy doesn't do it in 2012 MY I would be very surprised...2013 MY at the latest

[snakekiller]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

They dont have to change engines...but it is about time. The LS3 has been in the vette since 2008. The LS2 only lasted from 05-07.

I would be very surprised if we didnt see some revisions to the ls3, a switch to DI or a entirely new motor. At the least some gear options etc or performance package

Dodge even stepped it up and their financial situation is no better. If chevy doesn't do it in 2012 MY I would be very surprised...2013 MY at the latest

but they are Z/28 and vert for a complete lineup, the Boss 302 came as a surprise and GM doesn't really need to compete with it. i positive we will see some add ons for the camaro 2012. Dodge had to step it up because it was getting destroyed, just like ford had to when the camaro came out. i could see a 302 competitor with a LS9 non S/C 6.2L, but i really think its not going to happen.

[DarricSS]

Have to be age 12 to post further in this thread..


Continue:


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[assasinator]

Originally Posted by snakekiller

i could see a 302 competitor with a LS9 non S/C 6.2L, but i really think its not going to happen.

ummm the non-S/C LS9 6.2 is called an ls3.



i know the differences between ls9/3 thank you.

[Shifty 6]

I haven't read this whole thing... but I remember Porsche trying something like this a few years ago, called the GT3 or the GT3 RS. Of course it is goign to outperform a Camaro. I think it is a great idea. I would love for GM to do something like this. I don't know if they just see the business case, or if Ford is just financing this or what. It just seems like people would be interested in this. If I were in a better position financially, I would love to have this in a camaro.

[snakekiller]

Originally Posted by assasinator

ummm the non-S/C LS9 6.2 is called an ls3.



i know the differences between ls9/3 thank you.

sorry i wasn't clear. i meant a LS3 with all the LS9 upgrades excluding the S/C, a N/A LS9 isn't just a LS3 you get fully forge internals and higher rpm range.

[ULTRAZLS1]

They are not going to anything like that for a camaro. A ZR-1 derived motor for the camaro? what the hell LOL.

They will update or replace the existing LS3 in the base vette and then will be used in the camaro...just like it has always been.

The question will be when. A lot of times the new motor goes in the vette for 1 year and then the camaro the next (1985-1987 for 350tpi vette camaro...a few 86 irocs had a 350 tpi, 1992-1993 vette camaro for LT1, and 1997-1998 for vette camaro ls1). They might do it the same year this time due to the heated competition.

All speculation and opinion obviously...but this is how it has been for the last 25 years in regards to the camaro air pump.