My STS dyno 8psi with meth

[camslambam]

So who installed this turbo setup without proper AFR monitoring?

[Kevin@Majestic]

Originally Posted by sneakypete

8 lbs of boost and the motor let loose. That sounds like a bad tune. No wonder you got the numbers you did, Majestic had the tune on the ragged edge. Just another reason you dont take an American car to get tuned by import guys. Sure they know what their doing but on cars that are designed to handle boost from the get go.

We actually tune more domestic cars than any other vehicles, and more aftermarket fi applications than cars 'designed to handle boost from the get go'. I've personally been tuning all platforms of fuel injection for almost 11 years and have multiple certifications and have trained all over the country, keep your ignorant comments on the shelf. On average, i personally tune 15-20 domestic applications (camaro's, mustangs, diesels, etc.) a month, and maybe 5-10 imports. I actually was unfamiliar with this platform at first and collaborated closely with Vince at trifecta on this tune and had him go over all of my logs. Ignorance is bliss lol. I fix tunes from shops all over the east coast from big name 'specialty shops'. It's funny how people think the further they drive for a tune, the better it must be, when in fact one of the nicest dyno facilities, housing 2 top of the line dyno's, as well as EFI University trained tuners, with countless certs pertaining to different software interfaces, and over 18 years combined tuning experience between the two tuners on site.... Just so happens our 'race' car is an import, and we don't have time to post info on every forum about every car we tune (that in itself would be a full time job), therefore people not seeing what really goes on in our dyno facility and making ASSumptions...

As far as the cause of this engine failure (hard to say the exact damage, as the motor has not been tore apart). No holes in the block, no oil/metal/or signs of detonation on plugs (no oil would indicate pistons/rings are most likely in tact, no holes would indicate rods are most likely in tact). 1 thing we did find, was no oil in the car.... I'm assuming due to no catch can with the isssues the llt has with crankcase pressure under boost. And the engine is seized, if i had to guess, i would say bearing failure, which doesn't 'sound like a bad tune' to me

[bcperry]

^^ well, the guy just had an opinion, and in all likely hood a somewhat valid one most of the time, though not necessarily in regard to your shop. What he was saying is that every other FI V6 can't get past 6 or 7 psi of boost without running lean. And from we were told earlier the pistons were absolutely gone. Which seems to me like the car was on the razors edge as far as what this car can do with the limited fuel supply. Again, not trying to demean you, or your shop, in fact, I applaud you for working with our car, and pushing it to its limits. But people are entitled to their opinions.

[Kevin@Majestic]

Agreed, and thanks.. I was just putting some facts up so further opinions weren't based off of hear say and lack of information. We actually just wrapped up a custom single 72mm turbo kit that our fabricator John designed for his llt, I'll see if he wants me to post some pics of it tomorrow.

[Can't_C_Me]

Originally Posted by Kevin@Majestic

Agreed, and thanks.. I was just putting some facts up so further opinions weren't based off of hear say and lack of information. We actually just wrapped up a custom single 72mm turbo kit that our fabricator John designed for his llt, I'll see if he wants me to post some pics of it tomorrow.

Would love to see them! Another FI LLT in the wild!!!

[scrming]

Originally Posted by Kevin@Majestic

We actually tune more domestic cars than any other vehicles, and more aftermarket fi applications than cars 'designed to handle boost from the get go'. I've personally been tuning all platforms of fuel injection for almost 11 years and have multiple certifications and have trained all over the country, keep your ignorant comments on the shelf. On average, i personally tune 15-20 domestic applications (camaro's, mustangs, diesels, etc.) a month, and maybe 5-10 imports. I actually was unfamiliar with this platform at first and collaborated closely with Vince at trifecta on this tune and had him go over all of my logs. Ignorance is bliss lol. I fix tunes from shops all over the east coast from big name 'specialty shops'. It's funny how people think the further they drive for a tune, the better it must be, when in fact one of the nicest dyno facilities, housing 2 top of the line dyno's, as well as EFI University trained tuners, with countless certs pertaining to different software interfaces, and over 18 years combined tuning experience between the two tuners on site.... Just so happens our 'race' car is an import, and we don't have time to post info on every forum about every car we tune (that in itself would be a full time job), therefore people not seeing what really goes on in our dyno facility and making ASSumptions...

As far as the cause of this engine failure (hard to say the exact damage, as the motor has not been tore apart). No holes in the block, no oil/metal/or signs of detonation on plugs (no oil would indicate pistons/rings are most likely in tact, no holes would indicate rods are most likely in tact). 1 thing we did find, was no oil in the car.... I'm assuming due to no catch can with the isssues the llt has with crankcase pressure under boost. And the engine is seized, if i had to guess, i would say bearing failure, which doesn't 'sound like a bad tune' to me

Well, in all fairness, CJT left out the fact he had NO OIL! Based on HIS description of the failure, he was certainly describing a motor destroyed due to detonation, which is usually a bad tune. Go back and read his description of destroyed pistons, etc... I think you would probably come to the same conclusion based on what he described...

As for the no oil.... well, we've seen that happen in basically STOCK LLTs! It has certainly happened in NON-BOOSTED LLTs! So for CJT to come in hear and say the LLT can't handle boost is really a bit off base... especially with the new information.... BTW, did he leave out any details on what happened to his first motor?

Thanks for taking to the time to sign up here and share your information... again, we can only go by what CJT told us... and it appears he didn't give us the full story...

[scrming]

Originally Posted by bcperry

^^ well, the guy just had an opinion, and in all likely hood a somewhat valid one most of the time, though not necessarily in regard to your shop. What he was saying is that every other FI V6 can't get past 6 or 7 psi of boost without running lean. And from we were told earlier the pistons were absolutely gone. Which seems to me like the car was on the razors edge as far as what this car can do with the limited fuel supply. Again, not trying to demean you, or your shop, in fact, I applaud you for working with our car, and pushing it to its limits. But people are entitled to their opinions.

I went back and re-read CJT's post to verify... he said:

"Pistons rings crackedmotor locked up . Metal in the oil "

"Broke open the block no pistons left. Not really but more then one was gone."

So, yes based on this info, I'm completely with you! Now if he had mentioned the fact the motor had NO OIL.... we would certainly have come to a completely different conclusion!

[sneakypete]

Originally Posted by scrming

I went back and re-read CJT's post to verify... he said:

"Pistons rings crackedmotor locked up . Metal in the oil "

"Broke open the block no pistons left. Not really but more then one was gone."

So, yes based on this info, I'm completely with you! Now if he had mentioned the fact the motor had NO OIL.... we would certainly have come to a completely different conclusion!

[Kevin@Majestic]

Again, I agree and that's the only reason I posted was to state the factual condition of the engine. As far as what may have seemed like a personal attack on 'sneakypete', was not due to his comment about 'sounding like a bad tune', but his need to go further in to claiming that our facility was an 'import shop' and that we tuned the car on the 'ragged edge' (we never push the limits on daily driven customer cars, this particular car had afrs across the board of 11.2, and ignition timing wasn't even advanced to mbt, therefore definitely no detonation. We tune engines properly and responsibly, the car makes the power it wants to make, I never tune for hp, the engines gonna do what it wants to do, giving it the proper environment inside the combustion chamber/cylinder is all I do), and not to take 'american' cars to us, which again I was just providing facts to prove those statements wrong. As far as the 'first' motor, i honestly have no idea and don't even think we were made aware that the engine had ever been replaced. All our facility did was install the water/methanol kit and dyno tune it. We had no part in the installation of the turbo kit or any previous engine swap. Also, my intentions are definitely not to contradict what cjt posted previously, he is a valued customer, but maybe he was just making a guesstimation as to what damage he though may have occurred do to the noises he heard at the time of engine failure. Not trying to stir the pot here at all, just trying to put some facts out there so the finger is not automatically pointed at us either (i've been doing this a long time, and know that the easiest thing to say when facts are missing is that it's the tune).

[sneakypete]

Kevin, at no time did i mean to disrespect anyone at Majestic. I was merely commenting on what was previously posted by the OP and the numbers that he put down compared to everyone else with the same setups makes one conclude that the tune was VERY aggresive. If i had known the motor was out of oil i wouldnt have made the same conclusion. For the import remark i may have been off base but you have to aggree when you see the shops car and the amount of imports rocking Majestic stickers and what not in J-Ville one will assume it is a very Import minded shop. So with that being said i have seen some cars you have worked on and i know you do good work and didnt mean to step on any toes.

[Kevin@Majestic]

Originally Posted by sneakypete

Kevin, at no time did i mean to disrespect anyone at Majestic. I was merely commenting on what was previously posted by the OP and the numbers that he put down compared to everyone else with the same setups makes one conclude that the tune was VERY aggresive. If i had known the motor was out of oil i wouldnt have made the same conclusion. For the import remark i may have been off base but you have to aggree when you see the shops car and the amount of imports rocking Majestic stickers and what not in J-Ville one will assume it is a very Import minded shop. So with that being said i have seen some cars you have worked on and i know you do good work and didnt mean to step on any toes.

No problem, thanks, and i apologize if my reply was a little out of line as well. We honestly go to great lengths to try and break that image that we know a lot of people have about us being an import shop, and a lot of people that say this have never been to the shop. Either way, no hard feelings at all. We're having a huge 'import vs domestic' dyno day on feb. 4th and will be running both dyno's at the same time and allowing call out's and what not, kind of like a racing event but on the dyno's lol. I encourage anyone in the area who has not been to our facility to come check it out and see what we're really all about. Free food, and hopefully lots of high horsepower domestics and imports. I know this threads gotten way off topic so i'm gonna take a back seat approach unless there are any other questions i can help provide info for. I'll start a new thread with some pics of John's llt turbo kit.

[Pt_killa]

Originally Posted by Kevin@Majestic

We actually tune more domestic cars than any other vehicles, and more aftermarket fi applications than cars 'designed to handle boost from the get go'. I've personally been tuning all platforms of fuel injection for almost 11 years and have multiple certifications and have trained all over the country, keep your ignorant comments on the shelf. On average, i personally tune 15-20 domestic applications (camaro's, mustangs, diesels, etc.) a month, and maybe 5-10 imports. I actually was unfamiliar with this platform at first and collaborated closely with Vince at trifecta on this tune and had him go over all of my logs. Ignorance is bliss lol. I fix tunes from shops all over the east coast from big name 'specialty shops'. It's funny how people think the further they drive for a tune, the better it must be, when in fact one of the nicest dyno facilities, housing 2 top of the line dyno's, as well as EFI University trained tuners, with countless certs pertaining to different software interfaces, and over 18 years combined tuning experience between the two tuners on site.... Just so happens our 'race' car is an import, and we don't have time to post info on every forum about every car we tune (that in itself would be a full time job), therefore people not seeing what really goes on in our dyno facility and making ASSumptions...

As far as the cause of this engine failure (hard to say the exact damage, as the motor has not been tore apart). No holes in the block, no oil/metal/or signs of detonation on plugs (no oil would indicate pistons/rings are most likely in tact, no holes would indicate rods are most likely in tact). 1 thing we did find, was no oil in the car.... I'm assuming due to no catch can with the isssues the llt has with crankcase pressure under boost. And the engine is seized, if i had to guess, i would say bearing failure, which doesn't 'sound like a bad tune' to me

You need to get with SC2150, he knows all about the crankcase pressure problems on boosted applications with the LLT. His suggestions helped my car out alot. I still eat alot of oil but only about 1 quart after 3000 miles after his suggested modifications.

72mm turbo kit must be nice!, is it remote or front mount? I'm running a 67mm and i had some surge issues (not bov related off-throttle surge) at low rpms with high boost (7.5-8psi). Most of it has gone away with my new anti-surge shroud though but still a little in higher gears, have you guys run into that issue?

[bmorecam]

When you are taking a big leap such as going turbo it is very very important to monitor everything from KR, timing, AFR, oil pressure, fuel pressure, LTFT, STFT, boost, etc, etc.. I monitor my car every single time I drive and I am not even boosted. A very well known tuner once told me that whenever you start changing factory parameters you have to monitor the changes period! and by the time you wait for the CEL to come on or wait until you notice anything different... it might just be too late.

CJT, I can't wait to see your n/a project come alive I'll make sure I keep up with your project even after my camaro is gone.

[Can't_C_Me]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

When you are taking a big leap such as going turbo it is very very important to monitor everything from KR, timing, AFR, oil pressure, fuel pressure, LTFT, STFT, boost, etc, etc.. I monitor my car every single time I drive and I am not even boosted. A very well known tuner once told me that whenever you start changing factory parameters you have to monitor the changes period! and by the time you wait for the CEL to come on or wait until you notice anything different... it might just be too late.

CJT, I can't wait to see your n/a project come alive I'll make sure I keep up with your project even after my camaro is gone.

What's that about buddy?!