Shno's House of Z

[Bhobbs]

Happy Thanksgiving to the HouZe. Hope everyone enjoyed the day.

[Number 3]

Ok just priced out my Gen 6. With the likely not needed brake upgrade ($3175) it came to $49,800.

Could get a manual and standard Brembos for $45,300.

Ouch!

[mlee]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ok just priced out my Gen 6. With the likely not needed brake upgrade ($3175) it came to $49,800.

Could get a manual and standard Brembos for $45,300.

Ouch!

That's going to put the Z in the > 65k territory

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by mlee

That's going to put the Z in the > 65k territory

At the start of the Z/28s release that might not be far off. Patience could bring crazy deals late in the generation like we're seeing now with the fifth gens. A crystal ball and a years patience could have saved me $10K though I wouldn't have been able to order at that price. A mid December lot find in a few years could be a great deal throughout the Camaro range. Would love a 1LT/RS V6 manual vert myself in Hyper Blue.

[Number 3]

I hope the Z/28 comes down in price from the $75,000 range in the Gen5. But much of that price was the differentiating CC brakes and the (drool) LS7.

There is still nothing rumored that would put a low volume one off engine in the Gen6, but an engine is the easiest thing to keep secret as you never see it. So unless someone snaps an underhood picture or some log book with a new engine code, we wouldn't know.

But with the 6 pot calipers available on the Gen6 SS, the only upgrade for a Z/28 would be back to the CC brakes. And this make sense as it's available on the C7 Z06 as well. But if there is only a single higher HP engine (LT4) available, it makes the differentiation more difficult.

The good news would be that if there is only a single powertrain available, then arguably you could launch a Z/28 AND a ZL1 nearly simultaneously.

If no unique engine, as I've suggested:

ZL1 is a 2SS with 6 pot brakes, MR shocks and the LT4 engine. Look for a $60,000 plus price tag if you can load up an SS to $49,000 plus. This will be a near 3,900 pound car with the added weight of the SC and coolers.

Z/28 is a 1SS with CC brakes an LT4 and significant mass reduction with the next gen of the Gen5 Z/28 dampers. Think of an SS 3,650 pound car with LT4 power. Mass offsets the increases of the ZL1.

But the biggest issue remains. How do you differentiate the 2 cars if you have the same engine? The Z/28 would not only be the track star, but because of any weight reductions would also be the 1/4 mile star. This would leave the ZL1 with a mission different than today.

But if this is the case, look at the ZL1 as being a CTS-V coupe like car in performance and the Z/28 simply destroying everything in it's path on the track............except the Z06. That won't happen if nothing more than weight.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I hope the Z/28 comes down in price from the $75,000 range in the Gen5. But much of that price was the differentiating CC brakes and the (drool) LS7.

There is still nothing rumored that would put a low volume one off engine in the Gen6, but an engine is the easiest thing to keep secret as you never see it. So unless someone snaps an underhood picture or some log book with a new engine code, we wouldn't know.

But with the 6 pot calipers available on the Gen6 SS, the only upgrade for a Z/28 would be back to the CC brakes. And this make sense as it's available on the C7 Z06 as well. But if there is only a single higher HP engine (LT4) available, it makes the differentiation more difficult.

The good news would be that if there is only a single powertrain available, then arguably you could launch a Z/28 AND a ZL1 nearly simultaneously.

If no unique engine, as I've suggested:

ZL1 is a 2SS with 6 pot brakes, MR shocks and the LT4 engine. Look for a $60,000 plus price tag if you can load up an SS to $49,000 plus. This will be a near 3,900 pound car with the added weight of the SC and coolers.

Z/28 is a 1SS with CC brakes an LT4 and significant mass reduction with the next gen of the Gen5 Z/28 dampers. Think of an SS 3,650 pound car with LT4 power. Mass offsets the increases of the ZL1.

But the biggest issue remains. How do you differentiate the 2 cars if you have the same engine? The Z/28 would not only be the track star, but because of any weight reductions would also be the 1/4 mile star. This would leave the ZL1 with a mission different than today.

But if this is the case, look at the ZL1 as being a CTS-V coupe like car in performance and the Z/28 simply destroying everything in it's path on the track............except the Z06. That won't happen if nothing more than weight.

Give the ZL1 a straight axle (less weight, better for straight line performance) and upgrade the blower, Corvette Horsepower ceiling be damned. They don't necessarily need to compete with the Hellcat for a higher HP number but it needs to be faster in a drag race. I'm still holding out hope for a NA Z/28 of some sort.

[Blueclyde]

Been a while since I checked in here. Interesting discussion. I've been wondering about the 6th gen Zxx potential offerings for a while now. I took some time this past Saturday to visit a very good friend of mine, who works at a Chevy dealer and has a personal affinity for white Camaros and Corvettes . Anyhooo, there sat a new 6th gen 2SS that I was able to get up close and personal with. It was a loaded 8 speed auto. All I can say is this new car is right. Right enough for me to move out of my ZL1. Whatever comes in the next Zxx models, they will be good. The SS is way good.

[Bhobbs]

Now that we got the Z/28 vs GT350R and GT350TP out of the way, I wonder if anyone will do a base GT350 vs 1LE comparison. It would be interesting to see how the 1LE holds up against something that could actually handle.

[Mr. Wyndham]

I know a lot of people think the 5th gen ZL1 was designed to be a straight-line drag car.....

But is not the current ZL1's mission to be a great-at-everything-perfect-at-nothing GT car?

I think they should take the SS, apply significant weight savings, aero, sticky tires, track suspension calibrations and components, and CC brakes. Call it a Z/28.

Then use the same formula as the past ZL1 except use an LT4...call it a ZL1.

Without messing with the engine for the Z/28, you get around CAFE...but it would be a wicked-fast track car....Can you imagine CC brakes with 400 lbs less to brake? Holy late braking batman....

I would LOVE to see a N/A hot-tuned LT engine, though...7400 rpms...540hp...(drool)

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I know a lot of people think the 5th gen ZL1 was designed to be a straight-line drag car.....

But is not the current ZL1's mission to be a great-at-everything-perfect-at-nothing GT car?

I think they should take the SS, apply significant weight savings, aero, sticky tires, track suspension calibrations and components, and CC brakes. Call it a Z/28.

Then use the same formula as the past ZL1 except use an LT4...call it a ZL1.

Without messing with the engine for the Z/28, you get around CAFE...but it would be a wicked-fast track car....Can you imagine CC brakes with 400 lbs less to brake? Holy late braking batman....

I would LOVE to see a N/A hot-tuned LT engine, though...7400 rpms...540hp...(drool)

Careful Mr. Wyndham, this is a family oriented site. That last line was pretty much word porn.

I do hope they surprise us.

[Mr. Wyndham]

I do like to talk dirty....

[Number 3]

Finally got to drive a Gen6. Short drive in a 1LT. V6 is its own auditory heaven.

Sadly, the trunk won't hold 1 let alone 2 sets of golf clubs unless the rear seat is down. I can get them in with the driver and 3 wood removed but they won't fit in the trunk in any way shape or form......other than broken.

Rear and rear quarter visibility is really, really bad. I guess for some relying on the rear camera and SBA is ok. For me it's a supplement not a replacement.

Rear seat space is null and void. I heard some folks of average height can get kids in the back but for me, with my knees in the IP, there is 3 or 4 inches from the seat back to rear seat cushion.

I wanted it to work, I really did. I am very afraid to say it may not work for me.

A convertible seems more workable as a 3rd car but sadly I have only 2 garage bays.

I can clearly see the greatness in this car. Even on a short drive the chassis excellence is apparent. V6 performance was a blast so clearly an SS will be spectacular. But what I have been afraid of is very apparent. As a coupe, trunk space, rear seat room and rear visibility frankly a very poor. And my concern all along is that people wanting a really fun coupe but not willing to pay the consequences to have a "bad a$$ 'Merican Muscle car" won't find this car ideal for their purchase.

And more importantly I hoped Mrs. Number 3 would enjoy diving a Gen6 vs a Gen5. He impression was so strongly based on the high belt and poor rear visibility would make it hard to drive.

I see why it is getting accolades and car of their year. But for the moment it doesn't work for me. I just hope I'm alone. As you guys know, my fear is A Gen4 repeat.

[mlee]

I can definitely see where it won't work for you. Especially if you plan to actually use the back seat and put golf clubs in the trunk. Visibility is also not as good as the gen5, but the belt line especially on the passenger side is a bit lower. Either way I know you wanted better visibility and this is not the case. I do think it blows the 5th gen away in every other category.

It will be interesting to see how sales go in the coming months.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by mlee

I can definitely see where it won't work for you. Especially if you plan to actually use the back seat and put golf clubs in the trunk. Visibility is also not as good as the gen5, but the belt line especially on the passenger side is a bit lower. Either way I know you wanted better visibility and this is not the case. I do think it blows the 5th gen away in every other category.

It will be interesting to see how sales go in the coming months.

It really had such a solid, wonderful feel. The Alpha underpinnings really shone through on a short drive.

If I had space for a 3rd car without parking something in the driveway? It would be a different story. But as a DD, I need to have my clubs in the trunk everyday in the summer and I need to see where I'm going and what's around me.

Honestly, in all the 5th Gens I've driven, all belonging to GM, I never tried to parallel park one. Just never felt comfortable. The Gen 6 is even worse. Even if it can park itself, which my SS can do, I want to see what's going on around me.

I can assure you it will sell well for all the reasons the Gen 5 sold well. Most of the bad marks are only slightly worse. And the positives? Handling, acceleration, braking? All improved in noticeable ways. And as many suggest, isn't THAT why you buy a Camaro?

Will it sell 150,000 units like the Mustang has been? That I just don't know. It needed to be a really great coupe to do that, and I just don't think it is.

You know my thoughts......make a great coupe and then a great Camaro. GM made a great Camaro first and the coupe part suffered a bit more than I was hoping.