Lingenfelter Performance Engineering Customers

[Speed74SS]

I knew I could count on Brother Speed to give up his experience! Speed ROCKS, he was and always will be #1 with his LPE transformation!
Been able to drive your monster in between messing up all them roosters?
The guys I deer hunt with, who had trouble hitten em 2 weeks ago (call em Mrs.) are out trying it again this weekend. [/QUOTE]


I look forward to coming on this forum and seeing whats going on everyday!! The LPE Brotherhood rocks!!!

We went out and smoked some roosters last week - so much fun
I had to put the car under wraps for a while, as the snow has now come in and the single digit weather. I will have it out as soon as the tires and other things come in but only to have them installed. Looking forward to spring already to get it on the local road course and seeing alot of you guys and gals at the Camaro5 Fest.

[Aaron Pfadt]

Originally Posted by mws444

Nice of you to drop in Aaron, with LPE power we need some susp. help.
What is your take on the rest of the bushings in the Camaro? Do they all need replacing like some suggest?

Happy to be invited in! Bushings are a funny thing. The GM bushings are there to keep the car quiet and comfortable. GM put in a crazy amount of isolation. If you look in the rear, the subframe is isolated from the body with 4 very large soft bushings. The differential is isolated from the subframe with 3 large soft bushings. The suspension is also isolated from the subrame through soft bushings on each control arm. That is too many degrees of freedom IMHO. There is room to stiffen up soem of that without doing anything negative to the noise vibration and harshness (NVH in GM speak).

For a car that is seeing performance driving and increased HP, I suggest at least upgrading the differential bushings and the control arm bushings. You will still have a major amount of isolation in the rear subframe to keep things civil in the car. I am in testing of our of solid subframe mounts on a street car. They bolt the rear subframe to the body solid, no movement. The Corvette is built that way from the factory and it works great, and the Camaro is that way in the front. I do not see any issues with going solid in the rear in street use, but I want to get some time on the system before I start recommending that for street cars.

We have full sets of control arm bushings available for the Camaro. These will be offed in a kit (as Don got them) and ala cart in case you want to just do some individual control arms. With our front poly kit installed, the steering response becomes crisp. It seems to subtract 500lbs from the car interms of response. A large portion of that is due to the inclusion of a spherical bearing (with a quiet teflon race) in the front trailing arm. This bushing alone (shown on the right side of the rendering)



is very large and soft and consequently allows a huge amount of deflection and causes 'squishyness' in the handling. If you put a stiff piece of poly in there, the suspension will bind because the motion of that joint is so funky. We replace that with an aluminum housing that holds the Delrin lined spherical. This allows the needed articulation while having very low friction and no deflection. Here is a rendering of the part. Sorry I do not have a photo of one handy.



The other components in our polyurethane bushing kit are more 'standard' units, but even with those we have learned a few tricks in our Corvette racing. We use a Type 3 hard anodize on all of our sleeves - which are 6061-T6 aluminum for light weight - for very low friction operation and insurance against noise. It is more expensive to manufacture them that way, but the end product is superior to anything else on the market, and we still keep our retail costs competitive with other manufacturers.

In summary, a performance minded driver will see major improvements with a bushing upgrade. The NVH concerns of GM have caused them to put so much slop in the system that it reduces the sporty feel of the car. You can replace the bushings with a good polyurethane kit and get that sporty feel back with no real negative effects on the NHV of the car.

-Aaron

[mws444]

Originally Posted by Speed74SS

I knew I could count on Brother Speed to give up his experience! Speed ROCKS, he was and always will be #1 with his LPE transformation!
Been able to drive your monster in between messing up all them roosters?
The guys I deer hunt with, who had trouble hitten em 2 weeks ago (call em Mrs.) are out trying it again this weekend.

I look forward to coming on this forum and seeing whats going on everyday!! The LPE Brotherhood rocks!!!

We went out and smoked some roosters last week - so much fun
I had to put the car under wraps for a while, as the snow has now come in and the single digit weather. I will have it out as soon as the tires and other things come in but only to have them installed. Looking forward to spring already to get it on the local road course and seeing alot of you guys and gals at the Camaro5 Fest.

Attachment 77923[/QUOTE]

Sorry to hear about the under wraps part....but those roosters are looking tasty!! I am jealous, looks like yall had a good day!
Kinda looks and feels more like up north than the west Texas desert around here right now.

[Windy City]

Originally Posted by mws444

HMMM.... Guess that would make me the nutty brother.
Really look forward to your evaluation, as I am sure it will be complete and comprehensive.
Horsepower has turned me into a "power junkie"...permagrin abounds.

Speaking of Junkie where has he been?

Now that's funny right there! Nutty Brother! Bud, from now on your the Nutty Bother!

Junkie must be busy with his "real" life. I sent him an email yesterday and haven't heard from him there either.
Silly life, gets in the way of race talk!

[Windy City]

Originally Posted by Speed74SS

I look forward to coming on this forum and seeing whats going on everyday!! The LPE Brotherhood rocks!!!

We went out and smoked some roosters last week - so much fun
I had to put the car under wraps for a while, as the snow has now come in and the single digit weather. I will have it out as soon as the tires and other things come in but only to have them installed. Looking forward to spring already to get it on the local road course and seeing alot of you guys and gals at the Camaro5 Fest.

Attachment 77923

Ya know, that there picture it will hurt your eyes! Hurt your eyes looking for someone who didn't have a good time!
Man that's like a photo from some sort of "fantasy island" hunt or something!
Must of had a sore shoulder by the end of that day!
Roof Roof Roof, you are king rooster killin dog Speed!
By the by, I'm cutting that pic and sending it to some of my hunting cronies that think what we do here on "public land" is really pheasant hunting!

[Windy City]

Originally Posted by Aaron Pfadt

The main features of our Pfadt Coilovers:
Inverted monotube design in on the front strut.

Inverted body design on the rear damper.

Our dampers in both the front and rear feature single point adjust-ability which controls both compression and rebound damping together.

Our damper are mono-tube design and feature a separate internal gas chamber, which in the industry is referred to as 'non-emulsion' design.

The final feature about our coilovers that I will share today is that our coilovers take a 'standard' flat ground race spring.

I've gotta run, but I'll get back to the bushing question in another post later.

-Aaron

See what I mean? (by intelligent conversation)

Originally Posted by Aaron Pfadt

Happy to be invited in! Bushings are a funny thing. The GM bushings are there to keep the car quiet and comfortable. GM put in a crazy amount of isolation. If you look in the rear, the subframe is isolated from the body with 4 very large soft bushings. The differential is isolated from the subframe with 3 large soft bushings. The suspension is also isolated from the subrame through soft bushings on each control arm. That is too many degrees of freedom IMHO. There is room to stiffen up soem of that without doing anything negative to the noise vibration and harshness (NVH in GM speak).

For a car that is seeing performance driving and increased HP, I suggest at least upgrading the differential bushings and the control arm bushings. You will still have a major amount of isolation in the rear subframe to keep things civil in the car. I am in testing of our of solid subframe mounts on a street car. They bolt the rear subframe to the body solid, no movement. The Corvette is built that way from the factory and it works great, and the Camaro is that way in the front. I do not see any issues with going solid in the rear in street use, but I want to get some time on the system before I start recommending that for street cars.

We have full sets of control arm bushings available for the Camaro. These will be offed in a kit (as Don got them) and ala cart in case you want to just do some individual control arms. With our front poly kit installed, the steering response becomes crisp. It seems to subtract 500lbs from the car interms of response. A large portion of that is due to the inclusion of a spherical bearing (with a quiet teflon race) in the front trailing arm. This bushing alone (shown on the right side of the rendering)


is very large and soft and consequently allows a huge amount of deflection and causes 'squishyness' in the handling. If you put a stiff piece of poly in there, the suspension will bind because the motion of that joint is so funky. We replace that with an aluminum housing that holds the Delrin lined spherical. This allows the needed articulation while having very low friction and no deflection. Here is a rendering of the part. Sorry I do not have a photo of one handy.



The other components in our polyurethane bushing kit are more 'standard' units, but even with those we have learned a few tricks in our Corvette racing. We use a Type 3 hard anodize on all of our sleeves - which are 6061-T6 aluminum for light weight - for very low friction operation and insurance against noise. It is more expensive to manufacture them that way, but the end product is superior to anything else on the market, and we still keep our retail costs competitive with other manufacturers.

In summary, a performance minded driver will see major improvements with a bushing upgrade. The NVH concerns of GM have caused them to put so much slop in the system that it reduces the sporty feel of the car. You can replace the bushings with a good polyurethane kit and get that sporty feel back with no real negative effects on the NHV of the car.

-Aaron

S-W-E-E-T! I wish I could say it in person! That way you could see the body language!

Now this is modern engineering improving our life at it's finest!

Sports car handling at it's finest from a heavy American Muscle car!

You say Porsche? Isn't that the sound made when a small statured blonde girl sneezes?

Thanks for chiming in Aaron, your relevant knowledge & expertise is very appreciated!

[Windy City]

Oh Geeze, did I mention? I can't wait to start disassembling my car!

[Speed74SS]

Originally Posted by Windy City

Ya know, that there picture it will hurt your eyes! Hurt your eyes looking for someone who didn't have a good time!
Man that's like a photo from some sort of "fantasy island" hunt or something!
Must of had a sore shoulder by the end of that day!
Roof Roof Roof, you are king rooster killin dog Speed!
By the by, I'm cutting that pic and sending it to some of my hunting cronies that think what we do here on "public land" is really pheasant hunting!

It really is phenominal hunting this year. There were a couple guys that came along that were BLM's (Bag Limit Multiplyers). Or "not very good shots", which I don't mind because it just means that I can shoot more birds We shot those within a couple hours and then there is nothing left to do but put down a few cold ones

[2010 BADSS]

Originally Posted by Windy City

Oh Geeze, did I mention? I can't wait to start disassembling my car!

Again??? Right on!

[mws444]

This "mod" bug is a is tough one to kick. Seems like half the fun is the process...I doubt we will ever finish these things. Lest we have to move on to a new one.

[RS-SS2]

Originally Posted by Windy City

How's the pecans doing? I thought of you as I had pecan pie during, around, and after Thanksgiving!

Well I haven't tried adjusting their stuff and so I can't speak of other suspension companies products. I know that Speed has some Peders products and I expect him to chime in from time to time with his experiences. Speed has a few miles on his so this is good for attrition reporting.

So far I have based my choice on knowledge and advertising information.
The internet has a plethora of information, some bad, some good. But I have done a lot of local networking and that has helped me immensely.

One great thing about this city I live in is it's cultural and information resources. (there is a lot of people here!)

There is nothing I love more than intelligent conversation with people knowledgeable in their discipline and I was pleased with the one I had today!

I will report judiciously what I experience as I have in the past!
I have enough miles on my car, with the stock suspension, so a direct comparison will be affirmed.

Hey MWS, all this horsepower ROCKS, don't it?

Great info as always Windy.

I didn't have any plans for suspension mods but I may reconsider after reading all of this.

BTW, the Bendpak lift has arrived and is sitting in our out building, might not have time for assembly until after santa visits.

[RS-SS2]

Originally Posted by mws444

Alright Guys, None of my buddies will race me out here. Two GT500's and a twin turbo Porche have all declined heads up. They want headstarts....go figure. Track is open on Sundays but no timer so it is only a heads up game til spring.
Need to find some new blood that dosent know me or the car...fresh meat if you will.
Need someone to do the topend speed research, 158 is coming on way too fast. I figure the car ought to be good for 200, but we need to know for sure.....Jeff, Ryan, Grahm?
May have to jump up to the LS7 next year....now I am the new Junkie, Junkie.

LS7 next year? You are really becoming a junkie.

It sure would be nice though.

[Windy City]

Originally Posted by RS-SS2

Great info as always Windy.

I didn't have any plans for suspension mods but I may reconsider after reading all of this.

BTW, the Bendpak lift has arrived and is sitting in our out building, might not have time for assembly until after santa visits.

Your gunna love it! I love mine! Got the RJ-45 Bridge jack and it is awesome!
I had put my CCW's on the car last week due to requests from a few members, swapped my street tires back on this morning in only a few minutes prior to doing some running!
It's like a sore d***, can't beat it!
Let me know if you need to modify a garage door. If your going in an out building I would guess not!

[1320junkie]

Originally Posted by mws444

Alright Guys, None of my buddies will race me out here. Two GT500's and a twin turbo Porche have all declined heads up. They want headstarts....go figure. Track is open on Sundays but no timer so it is only a heads up game til spring.
Need to find some new blood that dosent know me or the car...fresh meat if you will.
Need someone to do the topend speed research, 158 is coming on way too fast. I figure the car ought to be good for 200, but we need to know for sure.....Jeff, Ryan, Grahm?
May have to jump up to the LS7 next year....now I am the new Junkie, Junkie.