5th Gen Camaro LS3 info from Chevy Hi-Po...READ

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

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Your Price:
Handling:

Availability:
$7,147.97
$89.00

In Stock

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Okay, and you say that the LS3 is going to sell at around 7k?

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by JeepinMatt

What were the two companies that made the ZL1 4th gens a few years back? Berger and Scoggins, right? Anyone remember those?

Well...GMMG was actually the company that made the ZL1 for the dealers if I recall correctly. But, Berger sold them and I think Fred Gibb did too...although I am really not sure on this one.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Okay, and you say that the LS3 is going to sell at around 7k?

I typed it straight out of GM High Tech Performace....yup...7K. I know. I thought that was funny seeing an LS1 going for just about the same as what the LS3 is going to go for.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Well, no. Not really. it confirms my theory. If the LS3 costs about the same as an LS1, and an LS2 (did a little research of my own), then that's one less reason against having an LS3 in our car as Base V8!

If you look deep into it; There's 6 or 7 years between Ls1, and Ls3...factor in inflation - and the LS3 is actually cheaper!

[JeepinMatt]

I've been looking up stuff on the 2002 ZL1s. Great car, but they cost close to 100k. Now, I would love a ZL1. But I can start with a regular production Camaro and build it to modify that ZL1 for half that, probably less. A new ZL1 would be great, but in 1969 and 2002 they only built a handful. With a price like that, it'll likely end up being owned by collectors. I'd rather see the 1LE package return. A racing option that isn't highly publicized. Keep it simple. Some heavy duty components, no frills, low weight, low price, big engine, better suspension components. And no having to go through GMMG to get one. Anyone remember the Pontiac Firehawks of the early 90s? Add that to the Competition Package and it was one sweet deal.

[TAG UR IT]

The 4th Gen ZL1's do go for quite a bit. I saw one sold for $85K. And the 1st Gen ZL1's are going for WAY more than that. Correct me if I am wrong someone, but there were only 69 ZL1's built in 69, right? Or, was that the # of ZL1 Camaro's that the dealer ordered?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Looks like you're right to me! I found this at Corvettes-musclecars.com:

1969 Gibb/Harrell ZL1 Camaro 427 COPO 9560


In 1969, Fred Gibb Chevrolet contacted the General Motors factory to produce the Camaro with the ZL1 all-aluminum 427 engine. The factory would agree to do it if Gibb placed a minumum order of 50 cars. Gibb initiated the order and this was the beginning of the COPO 9560 Camaro.
The first two ZL1 Camaros arrived at Gibb's dealership on a snowy evening in the last days ofDecember 1968. The agreement GM made with Gibb was to have ZL1 cars available for sale prior to the end of 1968. The GM factory delivered as promised.
Unfortunately, Gibb had neglected to ask about the cost of these cars. The window sticker price was over $7,200. Needless to say, not many Camaro enthusiasts were eager to step up and pay a price that was almost twice the cost of the COPO 9561 cast iron 427. Due tothis "sticker shock", negotiations transpired between Fred Gibb and the Chevrolet factory managers. It was agreed that Gibb could return most of the cars. It was the first time in history that the factory took back cars from a dealership. The unsold cars were re-invoiced at the factory and redistributed to other high-performance Chevrolet dealerships.
In addition to the original 50 ZL1 Camaros shipped to Gibb Chevrolet, an additional 19 ZL1's were ordered through the 1969 production year by various other high-performance Chevrolet dealerships. This ended the 1969 ZL1 Camaro production run at a total of 69 cars. Fred Gibb Chevrolet did manage to sell 13 of the original 50 that he ordered.
This ZL1 pictured here is the last of the 13 cars sold by Fred Gibb Chevrolet. It was purchased by a non-racer, which thankfully is why it has all its original sheet metal. It was not tubbed or otherwise modified for the race track as so many of these cars were. This ZL1 also has its original motor which only a handful of the surviving cars have. This Camaro was Gibb-prepped and tuned by Dick Harrell who was known as "Mr. Chevrolet". In fact, this ZL1 still has the Dick Harrell badges denoting his personal signature on the car before it went out the door to the customer. Also included is a letter on Gibb Chevrolet letterhead from Fred Gibb himself about this ZL1.
The records on ZL1 Camaros can be found in a book called The COPO Connection. In this book, the options on this car are as follows: power disc brakes, M21 close ratio 4-speed, F70x14 white letter tires, black vinyl trim, ZL2 induction hood, hugger orange, and 9560 ZL1 High Performance Unit.

[Radcannon]

Ok. A few things. There will be two options of V6's the higher performance 3.6 will be a direct injection out of the cadillaics right now and as of now it will be 305 or a little more horsepower and fully optioned will only be 22K.

The key point for GM is competing with the Mustang. And yes the LS3 costs just as much as the LS1 to produce. So I would not look at it as being to much more expensive just below 28K but then I am not sure if this will be fully optioned like the V6. We also have to remember the V6 direct injection is very new technology and costs more to produce if not because of materials because of research time therefore i do not see the LS3 being to much more although i believe there will be another base V8 from what i have heard that will be just over 400 horses most likely the 6.0 L.

Also the LS3 is bad i've seen it and been around it can't tell you to much but with slight modifications such as cam she can put down around 500 to the rearwheels so im not to sure that GM will necessarily supercharge it as much as adjust the cam and timing on it to what ive seen for a 500 horsepower version.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Radcannon

Ok. A few things. There will be two options of V6's the higher performance 3.6 will be a direct injection out of the cadillaics right now and as of now it will be 305 or a little more horsepower and fully optioned will only be 22K.

The key point for GM is competing with the Mustang. And yes the LS3 costs just as much as the LS1 to produce. So I would not look at it as being to much more expensive just below 28K but then I am not sure if this will be fully optioned like the V6. We also have to remember the V6 direct injection is very new technology and costs more to produce if not because of materials because of research time therefore i do not see the LS3 being to much more although i believe there will be another base V8 from what i have heard that will be just over 400 horses most likely the 6.0 L.

Also the LS3 is bad i've seen it and been around it can't tell you to much but with slight modifications such as cam she can put down around 500 to the rearwheels so im not to sure that GM will necessarily supercharge it as much as adjust the cam and timing on it to what ive seen for a 500 horsepower version.

When did GM announce this? That is as good of speculation as we have seen and it is likely to be true, but has GM actually came out and said it?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Welcome to the boards! But...a few things, here, man.

Originally Posted by Radcannon

Ok. A few things. There will be two options of V6's the higher performance 3.6 will be a direct injection out of the cadillaics right now and as of now it will be 305 or a little more horsepower and fully optioned will only be 22K.

No one has confirmed ANY of that, especially a fully-optioned V6 for 22k. There's no way to know that, because, well...nobody knows options.

Originally Posted by Radcannon

The key point for GM is competing with the Mustang. And yes the LS3 costs just as much as the LS1 to produce. So I would not look at it as being to much more expensive just below 28K but then I am not sure if this will be fully optioned like the V6. We also have to remember the V6 direct injection is very new technology and costs more to produce if not because of materials because of research time therefore i do not see the LS3 being to much more although i believe there will be another base V8 from what i have heard that will be just over 400 horses most likely the 6.0 L.

The issues you're presenting with the LS3...don't sweat it, like I said, option-gauging is irrelevant, and a waste of enrgy at this point.

As for the V6 DI...Take it from a Tech Teacher, especially in this industry right now, new Technology doesn't mean for sure more expensive, it will be, yeah, but the V6 Camaro is designed with high-volume in mind. Wether they even use this engine because of that reason is up for debate, but rest assured - If the engine is used, it will be priced well.

Originally Posted by Radcannon

Also the LS3 is bad i've seen it and been around it can't tell you to much but with slight modifications....

You mean 'bad', as in Holy Awesomeness, right? :p

[TAG UR IT]

Until a GM employee says anything...it's still all speculation. Good points...2 V6's w/ one being hi-po, etc. Prices could be around there too...22K. Yup...

[Radcannon]

trust me on the h/o v6 it is the direct injection and will be extremely close to 22 for the 3.6. Which i wouldnt be suprised the base V6 to even be cheaper.

As for ls3's there is some talk now about them coming out during the second year of production but i would highly doubt gm putting the ls2 in as of the production cost.

And corvette did not alwasy be on top remember the late 60's and 70's the camaro could walk all over the corvette except the special options which were still close. We also have to remember the z28 was a racing version built to compette in the low CID engines thus being a 302 and the SS's had the larger displacement more horsepower with the COPO's Corporate Office Production Orders being the top of the line. I wouldnt doubt to see some of those to compete with the GT500.

Also if GM is going to their heiratage which i see them doing we will most likely see an SS corvette since the first SS came from corvette although none were officially produced. And THE CORVETTE WILL ALWAYS BE A DIFFERENT CAR. Not just because of weight and styling and components but because of AERODYNAMICS. GM puts tons of money in asthetics and aerodynamics for the corvette while im leaning on mainly asthetics for teh camaro. And drag is a cubed function of acceleration and velocity i believe. That being said even if the camaro had the same engine as the vette which i could see the camaro would never be as fast as the Corvette simply because of aerodynamics. For example that means that at highspeeds the camaro could need anywhere close to double the horsepower to stay in competetion with the VETTE.

Sorry for the long post but a couple more notes. I wouldn't be suprised to see a S/C'd version although GM steers away from high rpm and f/i because after 6200 rpm wear increases substantially at a very suprising rate and f/i'd also incredibly increases wear especially with 10 psi or more. That being said GM does have prototypes of the corvette that is S/C'd and i belive the manifold is made in germany. I wouldnt be suprised to see a ZL1 with a S/C on it although not for a while.

As for the mention to direct injection V8's. NOT HAPPENING. When they come out which they will because of the improvements it will be cadillaic like th V6 now because of its luxury. GM has that reserved for the luxury models right now within 5-10 years maybe a different story but no time soon will we see a DI V8 also we will not see the DOD in the new camaro like expected that i believe has been phased out especially with the talks of the LS3.

NO REPLACEMENT FOR CUBIC DISPLACEMENT. End of story ricers are dumb.. They are good at what they do but they have horrible components that crap out to soon because of what they are trying to do.... They do not last when the are squeezed for horsepower and torque is non-existent.

[stovt001]

What is the source for that? Or is it just speculation? So far there has been no indication that AFM has been ruled out, and GM has to be operating under very tight fuel economy parameters to make this car marketable and CAFE compliant.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Radcannon

trust me on the h/o v6 it is the direct injection and will be extremely close to 22 for the 3.6. Which i wouldnt be suprised the base V6 to even be cheaper.

As for ls3's there is some talk now about them coming out during the second year of production but i would highly doubt gm putting the ls2 in as of the production cost.

And corvette did not alwasy be on top remember the late 60's and 70's the camaro could walk all over the corvette except the special options which were still close. We also have to remember the z28 was a racing version built to compette in the low CID engines thus being a 302 and the SS's had the larger displacement more horsepower with the COPO's Corporate Office Production Orders being the top of the line. I wouldnt doubt to see some of those to compete with the GT500.

Also if GM is going to their heiratage which i see them doing we will most likely see an SS corvette since the first SS came from corvette although none were officially produced. And THE CORVETTE WILL ALWAYS BE A DIFFERENT CAR. Not just because of weight and styling and components but because of AERODYNAMICS. GM puts tons of money in asthetics and aerodynamics for the corvette while im leaning on mainly asthetics for teh camaro. And drag is a cubed function of acceleration and velocity i believe. That being said even if the camaro had the same engine as the vette which i could see the camaro would never be as fast as the Corvette simply because of aerodynamics. For example that means that at highspeeds the camaro could need anywhere close to double the horsepower to stay in competetion with the VETTE.

Sorry for the long post but a couple more notes. I wouldn't be suprised to see a S/C'd version although GM steers away from high rpm and f/i because after 6200 rpm wear increases substantially at a very suprising rate and f/i'd also incredibly increases wear especially with 10 psi or more. That being said GM does have prototypes of the corvette that is S/C'd and i belive the manifold is made in germany. I wouldnt be suprised to see a ZL1 with a S/C on it although not for a while.

As for the mention to direct injection V8's. NOT HAPPENING. When they come out which they will because of the improvements it will be cadillaic like th V6 now because of its luxury. GM has that reserved for the luxury models right now within 5-10 years maybe a different story but no time soon will we see a DI V8 also we will not see the DOD in the new camaro like expected that i believe has been phased out especially with the talks of the LS3.

NO REPLACEMENT FOR CUBIC DISPLACEMENT. End of story ricers are dumb.. They are good at what they do but they have horrible components that crap out to soon because of what they are trying to do.... They do not last when the are squeezed for horsepower and torque is non-existent.

You sound very well informed, and your logic is quite reasonable. And I can confidently say that most of us agree with the majority of what you say. However, we can't accept your words as truth. Nothing personal. If you say that you know that what you claim is true, we know you are either not allowed to say that info or you are lying since its not likely that anyone knows for sure what engines will be in the new camaro.

But still, welcome to the site. I look forward to hearing more of your insight and seeing how close you are when the specs are finally revealed

[Mr. Wyndham]

Welcome! But....riiiighhhht. I can't accept that. Not after what we've been hearing for the last 2-3 years... :p

DI engines...I'd bet all of my families life they're coming soon. it's fuel saving...and it just so happens to produce more power. 10 yrs...eh, eh..
Plus, all Gen V's are supposed to be DI, AFM, VVT, E85 capable (the whole shebang)...but if the LS3 is the last 'iteration' of Gen IV...does that mean, we'll have to deal with the LS3 for 10 more years before we get something new?...something in my tummy says no.:p

I can see where you're coming from with the whole DOD thing, though. LS3 don't have it, but still. AFM is wicked awsome for GM...why all of a sudden cancel it?

I'm NOT trying to argue with you, I'm just thinking out-loud...
I have ask though, where did you get all that info?