History of the ZL1

[detltu]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

As with all things regarding "history", there is always a chance of some "blurry-ness" setting in.

There already has been an "official" GM ZL1 ...and it wasn't a Camaro. The '69 ZL1 engine was, in fact, readied for production for CORVETTE. The ZL1 "package" was listed in the '69 Corvette V.O.G. Essentially, it substituted the ZL1 engine for the cast iron-blocked L88 (meaning NO Power Steering/Heater/Radio could be ordered, but J56 HD Brakes and K66 IgnitionMUST be ordered), and was to include fender flares (to be installed post-delivery).

The St. Louis Corvette Plant Manager ordered one as a "demo"...and that car, fully restored, resides at Roger's Corvettes in Maitland FL., the only original Corvette ZL1 mated to its original engine. T-shaped front end/hood stripe.

Zora Arkus Duntov had a proving-ground "mule", a red roadster with a Turbo 400...fitted with open headers and 9" drag slicks! Tested/reported by Car Life Magazine, the car ran high 10s in spring-'69!! Duntov also had a road-racy version at Milford, to show the car's track prowess. Both Milford cars are believed to have been "engineering exercises" and NOT production-built.

Which leaves the "John Maher" Red Turbo 400 Roadster as likely the only other production-built ZL1... "Blurry" history, indeed!

With orders stalled, and Tonawanda having the parts 'n pieces for many more engines for the program, Dick Harrell/Fred Gibb were "timely" in their "cooperation" with Vince Piggins...

The '69 Camaro "ZL1" was in fact known "officially" as COPO 9560 and, contrary to urban legend, the COPO (both 9560, and the L72-engined 9561) was available with any non-conflicting RPO...including RS Package, Power Windows, Deluxe Interior/Exterior Packages, Console etc. Not all of them were "strippers"...

Nowhere on the car is there a ZL1 identifier/emblem...but there IS on the Corvette...

The plant manager car does reside in Florida. It was actually sold at a government auction in the 80s.


The Zora Arkus Duntov car was fitted with a ZL-1 for the 1969 press release and then refitted with an LT-2 (454 version of the ZL-1) for the 1970 press release (where it was shown along side the two 9567 Camaro ZL-1 prototypes).

The John Maher Corvette ZL-1

and also the white with black stripe owned by Kevin Sudyam in Seattle seems to be a factory original.


I am curious about this. You only ever hear mention of two being sold to the public but there seem to be three clear Zl-1s. Was the yellow car not considered to be sold to the public because it was a demo? Is there some debate about the authenticity of one of the cars?

Also I have never seen any ZL-1 badging on any of the cars. It was however a factory RPO on the Corvette versus a COPO on the Camaro.

[Codefive]

Rogers Judski's yellow car is the ONLY one with documentation. It is one of the two that where produced. I have seen SIX other posers over the years and have had the luxury of inspecting four of them VERY closely. All of them claim to be "the other one". But no one has proper documentation and/or #s matching components. Everything I've seen has been a "re-creation" including forged paperwork and restamped blocks etc...

I remember when the yellow one went through the auction and reading about its history (specifically, how it came to be at auction. lol) Truely an amazing car!

[Mr Twisty]

Great info, thanks for contributing, folks!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Seems like the ZL1 name dips deeper into history than we thought!

This is great reading!

[LOWDOWN]

Interesting story at the link, regarding Judski's ZL1, which I have personally seen:

http://www.rogerscorvette.com/spots/feb98/spot.htm

Corvette Fever article re: Maher's roadster:

http://www.corvettefever.com/feature...zl1/index.html

Zora's playtoys were "engineering mules", and therefore "built", not produced...

The Seattle car: where's the paperwork?

According to all sources I'm aware of, including NCRS, only TWO were produced in St. Louis...

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

BTW, if you watch this video, you'll see where the guy in the skybox, who buys and sells a LOT @ B-J, realizes Reggie is having the ZL1 "schilled"...and you'll see Reggie down-front talkin' to the "bidder"...

That's why, at a B-J "non-reserved" auction, only 60-70% are actual sell-throughs...

[detltu]

After reading some more it seems the concensus is the white one is fake.

Let me take that back. There is no concensus. But popular opinion is the white one is fake. Mahers car is also called into question quite a bit as well. There are even more people who say that there are more like 7 factory origianal ZL-1 Corvettes.

Since this is a camaro thread though We can safely say that 69 Camaros left the factory with ZL-1s. None of them were black (from the factory). Only 2 had the RS options ( a blue one and I think a silver one).

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by detltu

There are even more people who say that there are more like 7 factory origianal ZL-1 Corvettes.

According to NCRS, ZL1 Corvettes = 2...

Only 2 had the RS options ( a blue one and I think a silver one).

The Blue one was a full-load car...Deluxe Interior/Exterior/Vinyl Roof/Power Windows/Console.

At least one COPO 9561 (L72) was a Silver w/Blue Trim RS...

http://www.russoandsteele.com/collec...rs__/6523.html

This one was a local car I recall, Summer '69...

[detltu]

Quick clarification: When I said "even more people who say there are more like 7...". That should have read more like "then there are other people who say..." The people who say there are more like 7 are clearly in the minority.

On to other ZL1 tidbits:

Chevrolet sold the ZL1 as a crate engine for a while after '69 and eventually Yenko bought the rights from Chevrolet and began building his own version of the ZL-1 (some of them modified for big cubic inches).

Later Chevrolet came out with the Ramjet ZL-1 454 (around 2002 or 2003?) which used a new version of the ZL-1 block. Of course this engine had ramjet fuel injection and was 454 cubic inches. I think this one was limited to 200 units.

Then in '08 Chevrolet came out with the anniversary edition 427. Basically a ZL-1 remake (although they didn't call it a ZL-1 it did have some ZL-1 logos on the engine in various places). I think this one was limited to 427 units.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

According to NCRS, ZL1 Corvettes = 2...



The Blue one was a full-load car...Deluxe Interior/Exterior/Vinyl Roof/Power Windows/Console.

At least one COPO 9561 (L72) was a Silver w/Blue Trim RS...

http://www.russoandsteele.com/collec...rs__/6523.html

This one was a local car I recall, Summer '69...

All of the information I have seen for many years states two "production" ZL1 Corvettes. I have never seen any credible documentation or info that contradicts that.
Clyde

[detltu]

Sorry to bring this thread back up but does anyone remember Jon Moss' Camaro ZL1 572?


Later updated with the 98 style front end

[Codefive]

Wasnt the Moss car one of three super badass creations done at Wheel 2 Wheel? I seem to remember a magazine cover with three wild Camaros (one being recognized as the forementioned) I want to say it was around the late 90s (98 or 99) maybe even early 2000

[detltu]

Originally Posted by Codefive

Wasnt the Moss car one of three super badass creations done at Wheel 2 Wheel? I seem to remember a magazine cover with three wild Camaros (one being recognized as the forementioned) I want to say it was around the late 90s (98 or 99) maybe even early 2000

The cars that pop into my head were the yellow drag car with the 98 style front end and the red/white car that also had some sort of huge engine in it. I think it had a red front that turned into flames towards the doors and had a solid white rear end? I'm sure he did other Camaros but those are the only two other ones I can think of.


here is the 1998 drag car that was part of the GM auction a few years ago.

Here are all three. THis is probably what you are talking about.

[LOWDOWN]

Moss' ZL1 was "match raced" against John Coletti's BOSS Mustang in a Car and Driver article...and the BOSS lived up to its name on the strip.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ved_comparison

The ZL1-type Big Block crate engines GMPP sells are based on the original "Winters" castings, with some improvements. If it has an aluminum alloy block, it's a "Winters" casting, and therefore a "genuine GM" part.

Some "very interesting" vehicles surfaced from W-2-W's shop under GM's "guidance". Too bad that place is history, now...and the talent is spread far 'n wide... The late Jeff Beitzel as leader, and Doug Goad, and John Meaney, and Kurt Urban, and... The place was a veritable breeding ground for technical talent.