FINALLY! GM puts the big V-8 in the Tahoes

[Mr. Wyndham]

They're being bought...so either that 99% of buyers are utter fools, or they do have a use for them. Do you not think that everybody would like to pay less for gas? Yet SUV's are still being bought. I'd say that earns a need factor for them.
And, for the record, I don't know a single soul that bought an SUV with the intentions of driving one person around daily; that's where all my arguments are stemming from.

I don't know what else to say really... apparently SUV's touch a nerve with you, stovt: Not a problem, Hell - far more minor things touch my nerves.............

[stovt001]

As an economist, I always have to think about what is the benefit people are paying for. What is their motivation? And what I come up with is the arms race concept. It kinda has two parts: One, once SUVs became common, people felt unsafe in their little cars sharing the road with these massive cars, so of course they bought the tanks to be safe too, so then there were more SUVs, so more people in small cars felt unsafe, so they bought more SUVs, and so on and so on. Two, its the same thing, just with image. As I said, in America we default to the assumption that bigger is better, so if you don't have the biggest vehicle you can possibly afford, then you're not as good as the guy who does. So you have to get one bigger than the Joneses next door. So everyone is ignoring the best economic decision making tools for buying a car and instead are buying into the economics of fear and jealousy. That is what annoys me.

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Just have to drive a kid or two around? Stop fooling yourself, you don't need one.

ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?! Are you actually telling me I'm fooling myself??????

Have you ever tried (being 6'3") sitting in a drivers seat w/ a child seat facing the rear behind you in a 4dr sedan? Well...if you're tall like me, you can't sit w/ the seat all the way back keeping your knees off of the dash. Add another car seat on the other side. 2dr coupes won't cut this. You've already mentioned that this is not going to work....and I've tried it in my wifes old Mustang...NOPE. Waaaay too darn difficult to get the kiddoes in and out and definately not enough room...for them or us. This is a safety factor as well...knees on the dash are a no go in my driving book.

Safety. I know...I read your last post. The bigger the better, right? Nope...not in my case. If I wanted huge SUV, I would have gotten us into a Tahoe or a Suburban. Instead, we took the midsize SUV...w/ side curtain airbags to save us in a side impact. Yes, we are higher off the ground too. This does have a factor in it as well.

Room. Well, this kinda goes back to my first point. But, can your Cobalt hold the two kiddoes in the back, a two seater stroller (yes,it's big), diaper bags, and groceries for four?...I'm talking going to SAMS groceries...flats of sodas, X3 milk containers, X2 large applejuice containers, X2 grape juice containers, one large box of size 3 diapers, one large box of size 5 pull up diapers, one large box of wipes, (we haven't gotten to the food part yet) ...basically everything in bulk...meaning this stuff takes up the entire back of our SUV. ...no I'm not taking 2 or 3 trips in my sedan to get all of our groceries. That is rediculous and a waste of time...time that I do not have to spare. I'm sure you wouldn't like that either.

Does your Cobalt have a roof rack to carry luggage as well? Mine does. So when we go to the coast on our roadtrip, we have that extra room up top to tie down luggage, fishing poles, ice chests, etc, if need be. Can't do that on a regluar old roof...unless you don't care about your paint...or losing your stuff on the highway along the way.

I know where you are coming from when you say there's a lot of people who don't need an SUV. True. There are a lot who buy it simply for the status. But, to say 99% don't need it is a stretch. If it was a status thing for me, I would have gotten into a Suburban. Midsize SUV's are still SUV's. We own an SUV and we NEED one.

[stovt001]

Well my family did all of the above (two kids and everything, pretty much identical) first in a compact Cavalier, then a compact Saturn. It just wasn't an issue. 4 people just don't have that much stuff. I mean, even with 3 kids our Costco trips would fit into the back of the Cobalt I have now. Of course, we didn't need nearly that much stuff to feed ourselves, and I have never been wanting. I guess we're just a very simple family. It works for me. I do agree 100% that a two door coupe won't work. I've helped put in enough child seats to know that its difficult enough with help in a 4 door. Couldn't imagine a two door. But even if you can't fit in a compact, 4 people can easily fit in a mid-size. Heck, splurge on a full size and you'll have plenty of room, still take up less space, car costs less, and you use far less gas. I wouldn't be saying this if we hadn't done it for years, but really, it can be done, and quite easily at that. Its not just me. Millions of families throughout the rest of the world get on quite fine too.

Now I'm not saying we should regulate SUVs or anything like that. I'm always against government regulation. Its just that so many people assume that you need an SUV if you have a family, and I just want to say you don't.

[TAG UR IT]

What did your Cobalt cost?

What kind of MPG does it get?

Does it have side curtain airbags?

http://www.elepent.com/review.php?nr=329
Here's what we got. IMO, we needed the SUV. It was the leather, sunroof, and butt warmers that weren't a necessity. But, I got them to make the wife happy...so when it comes time for me to get my Camaro, I can get what I want...not what I need.

What's so bad about owning an SUV anyway? That's like me saying you don't have to own a Cobalt. Technically, you can ride the bus....millions of people have been doing it for years, ya know? ...and I'm sure they are getting by just fine too...

[stovt001]

Right under $18K out the door (tax, fees, everything)

In traffic, 27 mpg. In normal highway, at least 32 mpg.

Yup, side airbags also cam bundled with ABS and TC. I researched beforehand and saw that it got nearly perfect crash test scores with the side airbag, but poor crash tests without. The entire package cost a few hundred bucks, cheap insurance if you ask me. It also made the fiance (at that time girlfriend) happy, and as you point out that's always a big concern when buying cars.

I just think it is absurd when I see my dad, my aunt's friend, so many people, buying SUVs and the only thing they ever do with them is use them to commute by themselves to work. Same situation with my aunt and uncle getting a minivan to drive one child around. Its like using an M1 tank to go quail hunting. My dad's Envoy did come in handy when I moved apartments, but I could have just as easily used my previously mentioned friends' Tahoe.

Well I guess this is just my upbringing. I was never pushed around in one of those urban assault strollers. My family never drank pallets of coke (my dad did, and his failing health is enough to vindicate that decision a million times over). When we had our numerous road trips (we rarely flew) my sister and I sat in the back of these tiny little cars, made a wall out of our luggage and books between us (later we just used sister #2 and her car seat) and read or enjoyed the scenery (also why I don't understand DVD players in cars). So really, I was just always raised on less "stuff" than the average kid, so I just never see the point in excess. I never felt slighted or that my family was cheap, just sensible. Actually, until I reflect on it now, I never realized there was anything exceptional about us. Sure tons of families at my school had Suburbans, but I just assumed they were the clans, the families big enough to form their own school district (we had tons of those at our school). I've just never been one to think in the "bigger is better" mentality that is so common in America, so I think we just come from different viewpoints.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

What's so bad about owning an SUV anyway? That's like me saying you don't have to own a Cobalt. Technically, you can ride the bus....millions of people have been doing it for years, ya know? ...and I'm sure they are getting by just fine too...

This is the heart of the argument. As americans we don't have the same appricieation for what we need vs what we want as other countries. I'd be willing to bet none of us need the 5th Gen. But we all want it. I'm sure it couldn't replace all the funtionality of a cobalt....

Please keep this in mind... The statement above goes for everyone else....

I NEEEEEEEEHHEEEEEEED my 5thGen

[DGthe3]

My cousin just got an Acura MDX in the spring, it sits beside her husbands Cadilac CTS. They have been married for 10-15 years and have no kids and i dont think they ever will. The reason they got it is because it is big and nifty gizmos. Thats pretty much what she said when she was talking to me about it. And after owning it for a month, she still couldn't operate the nav system it came with. These are the people that never, by any line of reasoning, need an SUV.

The basic argument for most people not needing SUV's, even people like TAG, is that north americians have done with not having them for decades. or at least not having too many of them. How many of us grew up with a couple siblings and no SUV? I have 2 brothers and we never needed one, or a minivan, or a wagon. And so, either things have changed dramatically in the last 10 years, or people have found excuses for buying SUVs

[Jeff]

My outlook on the "is a SUV a necessity" issue is that, it varies from family to family. For Tag apparently the Kia mid size SUV is a must considering he wants to provide a safe ride for his kids, and needs room for groceries. Theres so many times in life you need a truck or SUV. Thats why I have a truck, trucks and SUV's aren't my personal favorites. Just without one of the two we wouldn't be able to do a lot of things we do.

[TAG UR IT]

Stovt, I know exactly where you are coming from...I do. I grew up like you. We didn't have much. My parents divorced when I was 7. My older brother was 10. We had the station wagon to lug us around. The trips to see the grandparents were also the same as you. We played in the back of the wagon (no belts on...never going to happen w/ my kids now!), built walls in a sense too, read books, didn't have DVD players or gameboys. It was a ride. And...it took longer to get from point A to point B...speed limits were lower.

We didn't have money to get nice stuff. Our cars weren't 5 star crash rated as they are now. For us, times changed. I got a pretty good paying job and I'm able to somewhat afford those "upgrades." We have the DVD players over the head rests given to us by my in laws. By no means to we need them. But, I'm sure you can agree that a TV show or movie can surely occupy a kids attention very well on long road trips. Basically, we were able to occupy our time, but we'd get tired of the same old stuff. Now, the kids are occupied the entire time...just change out the movie. It makes the trip for the youngster go by that much faster. And now...we don't hear the "are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?" It's one less stress reliever to have DVD players....BELIEVE ME!!! lol

Some of these things we just don't need. My main concern here is the safety and interior room. Part of my safety factor is ride height. The lower you are, the lower you put your kids to the bumper of the car that hits you. Sure, the higher you get, the more chance of a roll over. But, we feel safer and my kids safety goes beyond any want in my book. It's a need.

I'd like to say we were very smart in our purchase of our Kia. I know, I know...it's a Kia. But, it's got a whole hell of a lot more than all the other SUV's we looked at...and we looked. The price was great for a fully loaded SUV...right at $25K...compare that to a fully loaded...well any other SUV. And, compare safety ratings. We did our homework. It wasn't a status thing for us. Like I said, if it was status, we'd be in a Lexus, Infinity, BMW, Merc, etc SUV or a larger SUV...Tahoe, Suburban, etc. This fit our needs...and I am very pleased w/ the price, the gas mileage, and more importantly, the safety.