Why is a tune required with header/hi-flow cat installation?

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by jeepguy_1980

That was sort of my point.

oh.

[K32 Camaro]

Originally Posted by jeepguy_1980

If LTs affect the AFR and cause the car not to run properly, why is it that GM doesn't void the warranty for headers, but they do void it for the tune, which is supposed to restore the AFR?

A warranty void happens when you try to make a claim and they prove that an after market part you applied caused the damage through changing factory safety settings.

Headers: Could only POSSIBLY dmg the engine by making it lean in the AFR, I think there is enough of a buffer in the ecu for it NOT to cause any damage and have never heard of anyone with dmg from it. No warranty void.

Tune: A tune effects the entire programming of the car and if done horrible could cause many things to get damaged. Again GM would have to prove the bad programming caused the damage to deny your warranty but in this case you're pretty much SOL.

Either way the warranty isn't technically entirely void. The damage claim just has to be completely unrelated to aftermarket parts/tunes. (ie. If you get a cam, lt headers, s/c, and tune. The warranty will still work on you roof liner and a leaky trunk. lol.)

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by 2SS45th

Dealers don't pay for the warranty work, they could care less. As long as when they send the PCM history to GM and it's clean, they don't care. Talked to the service manager, general manager, and mechanic. As long as the tune is not on the PCM, they won't do anything. Headers run better with a tune, but it isn't necessary.

sometimes. while the dealer doesn't pay for the warranty work, they sure hate doing it. the factory really makes it tough to even break even on some warranty jobs, why do you think the dealers have to charge so much for customer pay work? cause the factory is always screwing them!

when I worked for NNA, I would always ask my dealers what mods were on the car. sometimes I would approve it and sometimes not.

once I had a 350Z I denied a blown motor. it was stock except for a ratty ass catback. why did i deny it? not only were the rear fender linings melted from hot rubber on them, the dude left his time slips in the center console! dumbass.

[jeepguy_1980]

Originally Posted by K32 Camaro

Headers: Could only POSSIBLY dmg the engine by making it lean in the AFR, I think there is enough of a buffer in the ecu for it NOT to cause any damage and have never heard of anyone with dmg from it. No warranty void.

I suppose that "buffer" would be to retard the timing and prevent knocking. That seems to me that you would lose power as the ECM adjusted to the headers.

[K32 Camaro]

Originally Posted by jeepguy_1980

I suppose that "buffer" would be to retard the timing and prevent knocking. That seems to me that you would lose power as the ECM adjusted to the headers.

No, I'm just saying that it's not programmed to be lean so when you add headers it will become more lean but not anywhere close enough to cause damage. You still get considerable rwhp gains off of untuned LT headers.

[2SS45th]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

once I had a 350Z I denied a blown motor. it was stock except for a ratty ass catback. why did i deny it? not only were the rear fender linings melted from hot rubber on them, the dude left his time slips in the center console! dumbass.

Glad you're not my warranty guy. I would let it slide, atta boy using that car the way it should be!

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by 2SS45th

Glad you're not my warranty guy. I would let it slide, atta boy using that car the way it should be!

You are clearly not employed and paid based on these types of decisions. Besides, 350Zs are for drifting, not drag racing.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by K32 Camaro

No, I'm just saying that it's not programmed to be lean so when you add headers it will become more lean but not anywhere close enough to cause damage. You still get considerable rwhp gains off of untuned LT headers.

I agree with this but the AFR is only one piece of the tuning puzzle.

[K32 Camaro]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

I agree with this but the AFR is only one piece of the tuning puzzle.

One piece of too many IMO. Not anything I would ever try on my own, pro-tune shops only for me!

[jeepguy_1980]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

You are clearly not employed and paid based on these types of decisions. Besides, 350Zs are for drifting, not drag racing.

And digging through someone's center console, for an engine failure, is legal and not an invasion of privacy?

[2SS45th]

Originally Posted by jeepguy_1980

And digging through someone's center console, for an engine failure, is legal and not an invasion of privacy?

I agree with this guy. Plus, there's so much mark up in cars they could do warranty work all the time. Parts and labor are super cheap for the dealer and manufacturer. But, beside the thread jack. Go for the headers, they'll give a hp upgraded without the tube and they'll sound awesome!

[justa25thTA]

Originally Posted by strych9

First, some caveats: I already know that more power potential can be extracted by performing a tune. However, I have no desire to void my warranty. I am interesting in gaining more of the exhaust sound I want, with no loss from stock performance. A gain of course is ideal, but not a deal breaker. A loss is not acceptable. What I specifically want to know are two things:

1. Will headers and high-flow cats cause a CEL without a tune?
2. Will any performance be lost without a tune?

Explain. Thanks!

I've had JBA High flow cats on for 6 months with no CEL and no tune. That's why I bought them. If you do get a CEL you put in the ant-foulers (which will move the O2's further out of the exhaust stream) and most likely cure the problem.

Don't think you will lose any performance, just leave a bit on the table. Course if you only drive on the street, you can't use all you have anyways.

I would NEVER drive around with a CEL on. How would you know that you don't have a real problem needing attention? On a side note, wonder if onstar can tell if the CEL is lite?

[strych9]

Originally Posted by justa25thTA

I've had JBA High flow cats on for 6 months with no CEL and no tune. That's why I bought them. If you do get a CEL you put in the ant-foulers (which will move the O2's further out of the exhaust stream) and most likely cure the problem.

Don't think you will lose any performance, just leave a bit on the table. Course if you only drive on the street, you can't use all you have anyways.

I would NEVER drive around with a CEL on. How would you know that you don't have a real problem needing attention? On a side note, wonder if onstar can tell if the CEL is lite?

You nailed what I was thinking perfectly. The CEL needs to remain functional for the warning of other faults, IMO. As for the performance, that's what I reasoned to be the result of of an untuned alteration.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by jeepguy_1980

And digging through someone's center console, for an engine failure, is legal and not an invasion of privacy?

seriously?? are people today this naive??? seems kind of delusional that if you drop your car off to have an obviously illegitimate repair performed the potential financially responsible party would not do their complete due dilligence before making a decision. lol, unbelievable. for what it's worth, I left all his quarters in there.

Originally Posted by 2SS45th

I agree with this guy. Plus, there's so much mark up in cars they could do warranty work all the time. Parts and labor are super cheap for the dealer and manufacturer. But, beside the thread jack. Go for the headers, they'll give a hp upgraded without the tube and they'll sound awesome!

I gotta ask, ever been in the car business? Do you know ANY of the real numbers behind markup, warranty costs, goodwill costs, etc? Just curious, because if you do and that is really your opinion, I guess that's valid, but if you are just saying that and you are an artist or something, then, come on, don't say what you don't know for sure.