Header idea?

[IndeedSS1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Regardless of settling...why support a company that unnecessarily overcharges for their products? Especially when other companies that are smaller and have less resources are making quality original headers and charging a LOT less. There is no excuse...

You haven't had your hands on them have you? Do you know what you are looking for in the details?

[BlaqWhole]

If Kooks and any other company wants to send me a set of their headers to inspect then I will gladly do so. Otherwise, I don't concern myself with the details when the results speak for themselves. OBX, TSP, SW, and all the others last just as long. And Kooks does not blow anyone away on the dyno or the track. From all I've seen and read, ALL the headers offer similar performance gains with no clear cut superior brand. Oh, and I did see the 1 to 2 year old post comparing the subtle differences between OBX and Kooks. So for twice the money, I'll get a bunch of minute details that nobody is ever gonna see or care about and that won't make any difference performance-wise...wow. I'll settle and keep my extra $600 to throw on other mods...

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Kooks isn't a better header overall...I'm just saying that it isn't worth what they charge...

[IndeedSS1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

If Kooks and any other company wants to send me a set of their headers to inspect then I will gladly do so. Otherwise, I don't concern myself with the details when the results speak for themselves. OBX, TSP, SW, and all the others last just as long. And Kooks does not blow anyone away on the dyno or the track. From all I've seen and read, ALL the headers offer similar performance gains with no clear cut superior brand. Oh, and I did see the 1 to 2 year old post comparing the subtle differences between OBX and Kooks. So for twice the money, I'll get a bunch of minute details that nobody is ever gonna see or care about and that won't make any difference performance-wise...wow. I'll settle and keep my extra $600 to throw on other mods...

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Kooks isn't a better header overall...I'm just saying that it isn't worth what they charge...

Maybe you can talk the guys that make US headers into taking a pay cut so the rest of us can get cheaper headers. If the issue is that you don't like company's making too much money, how much profit do you think can be made by paying 10 year old kids less than a buck and hour to make your headers.

[MarylandSpeed]

I love the stuff like....

"Oh Kooks has been overcharging for quite some time".....and "If they want to send me a set, I will be glad to look them over".

Here are the two realities.

a.) There is a difference between overcharging, and a product simply costing more than you want to pay. In a world of $400 intakes a $1000 catbacks...I do not think that spending $1100 or so on a set of American made headers with cats is out of line. Do some price research. Especially considering in terms of performance, headers are the only one of the 3 that does everything. I get so frustrated when I see people running around with a CAI Intake, Corsa or Borla Exhaust, and then they want to moan over how they had to buy some flea market headers because nice ones are over priced. Kooks, ARH, Dynatech, Stainlessworks all cost about the same price. These companies are all very competitive...and if one could drop the price $200 and own the market, they would. The reality however is, if you want a header with cats made of 304 stainless, in the US, you are gonna pay $1000+

b.) The second reality is sometimes a product is out your price range. And it has nothing really to do with income. It is all a matter of what you want to spend. I know plenty of rich people who won't part with a dollar to save their lives. I know plenty of people who blow money they really don't have. If for some reason you say in your head you are only gonna spend $400 on headers...then the only real end game is you end up with ebay knock offs. Your car, your money, do what you want. However I personally think it is wrong to buy a knock of product, and then run around like they are such a great value, and the real thing is over priced...blah...blah. There is no way it is not hypocritical to buy an unauthorized, inferior copy of some elses work, and then act like the original company being ripped off is the bad guy fleecing people. Especially when the reality is, you would love to have the real thing, you are just too cheap (or can't afford) to buy it.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

I love the stuff like....

"Oh Kooks has been overcharging for quite some time".....and "If they want to send me a set, I will be glad to look them over".

Here are the two realities.

a.) There is a difference between overcharging, and a product simply costing more than you want to pay. In a world of $400 intakes a $1000 catbacks...I do not think that spending $1100 or so on a set of American made headers with cats is out of line. Do some price research. Especially considering in terms of performance, headers are the only one of the 3 that does everything. I get so frustrated when I see people running around with a CAI Intake, Corsa or Borla Exhaust, and then they want to moan over how they had to buy some flea market headers because nice ones are over priced. Kooks, ARH, Dynatech, Stainlessworks all cost about the same price. These companies are all very competitive...and if one could drop the price $200 and own the market, they would. The reality however is, if you want a header with cats made of 304 stainless, in the US, you are gonna pay $1000+

b.) The second reality is sometimes a product is out your price range. And it has nothing really to do with income. It is all a matter of what you want to spend. I know plenty of rich people who won't part with a dollar to save their lives. I know plenty of people who blow money they really don't have. If for some reason you say in your head you are only gonna spend $400 on headers...then the only real end game is you end up with ebay knock offs. Your car, your money, do what you want. However I personally think it is wrong to buy a knock of product, and then run around like they are such a great value, and the real thing is over priced...blah...blah. There is no way it is not hypocritical to buy an unauthorized, inferior copy of some elses work, and then act like the original company being ripped off is the bad guy fleecing people. Especially when the reality is, you would love to have the real thing, you are just too cheap (or can't afford) to buy it.

Ok reality is, I never even considered buying Kooks. Not in my Mustang days, and definitely not now. I would buy Pacesetter headers before I even think about buying Kooks. No, I wouldn't "love" to have a set. If I wanted a set THAT bad, then I would have bought a set.

Now you can justify and defend their pricing however you want. That's fine with me. And you can support and push them for your customers all you want. And it's fine that you talk about whats right and wrong in selling headers. You know what else is wrong? Installing aftermarket performance HF cats on vehicles with non-malfunctioning components that have less than 50,000 miles. How many times have you done that? You know what's even worse? Removing cats altogether on a vehicle that is intended to be used on the street. Ever done that? Ah, there it is. But I guess you can overlook certain things that are illegal while preaching about moral ethics...eh??

Oh, and don't get me wrong...CAIs and cat-backs are way over-priced as well. Which is a reason why I don't buy those either...at least not brand new from the over-priced companies. You see, there was a time not soo long ago when CAIs were around $150. And there was a time when I could get a cat-back system with X-pipe and HF cats for the price of an axle-back today. But now there are companies charging $1200 for a cat-back alone. And the general consensus here is that a cat-back offers no performance gains...despite the false advertisements from the manufacturers. So $1200 for a performance mod that only serves to make a car sound a certain way? You don't see anything wrong with that?

And yes, you are correct that if you want a certain product then you are gonna have to pay a certain amount. Me, I got champagne money and Coors Light taste. And I'll make do with the "cheap knock-off" stuff!!

[SPCBA]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

I love the stuff like....

"Oh Kooks has been overcharging for quite some time".....and "If they want to send me a set, I will be glad to look them over".

Here are the two realities.

a.) There is a difference between overcharging, and a product simply costing more than you want to pay. In a world of $400 intakes a $1000 catbacks...I do not think that spending $1100 or so on a set of American made headers with cats is out of line. Do some price research. Especially considering in terms of performance, headers are the only one of the 3 that does everything. I get so frustrated when I see people running around with a CAI Intake, Corsa or Borla Exhaust, and then they want to moan over how they had to buy some flea market headers because nice ones are over priced. Kooks, ARH, Dynatech, Stainlessworks all cost about the same price. These companies are all very competitive...and if one could drop the price $200 and own the market, they would. The reality however is, if you want a header with cats made of 304 stainless, in the US, you are gonna pay $1000+

b.) The second reality is sometimes a product is out your price range. And it has nothing really to do with income. It is all a matter of what you want to spend. I know plenty of rich people who won't part with a dollar to save their lives. I know plenty of people who blow money they really don't have. If for some reason you say in your head you are only gonna spend $400 on headers...then the only real end game is you end up with ebay knock offs. Your car, your money, do what you want. However I personally think it is wrong to buy a knock of product, and then run around like they are such a great value, and the real thing is over priced...blah...blah. There is no way it is not hypocritical to buy an unauthorized, inferior copy of some elses work, and then act like the original company being ripped off is the bad guy fleecing people. Especially when the reality is, you would love to have the real thing, you are just too cheap (or can't afford) to buy it.

Great post. I bought kooks because of the quality of materials. Quality of labor. Quality of fitment. Quality of performance. Also I love me some America, would much rather pay fellow Americans for a quality product and reward them for their RnD, their willingness to provide great products for a very small demographic, and their support of the American work force and economy.

If I can help it I wont buy a Chinese knock off with exploited labor. With no RnD done theirselves. Piss poor materiels. Piss poor workmanship. If you would rather support a countries economy that exploits their own people, murder their own people, and are our countries enemy in terms of philosophy and economy and militarily then have at it.

God bless America, the United States Military, and our beautiful freedoms.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SPCBA

Great post. I bought kooks because of the quality of materials. Quality of labor. Quality of fitment. Quality of performance. Also I love me some America, would much rather pay fellow Americans for a quality product and reward them for their RnD, their willingness to provide great products for a very small demographic, and their support of the American work force and economy.

If I can help it I wont buy a Chinese knock off with exploited labor. With no RnD done theirselves. Piss poor materiels. Piss poor workmanship. If you would rather support a countries economy that exploits their own people, murder their own people, and are our countries enemy in terms of philosophy and economy and militarily then have at it.

God bless America, the United States Military, and our beautiful freedoms.

Wow, nice route to take. I guess this country never did any such horrible things. I guess this country doesn't have a history of slavery, witch hunts and burning women (who it turns out merely suffered from an affliction currently known as epilepsy), gender inequality, racial profiling, discrimination based on sexual preference...oh, and darn near committing genocide to the lands original inhabitants. Sheesh...

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE this Country and I come from a family of people who have served in the military. I support America. But buying a darn set of headers has NOTHING to do with any of this...not in the slightest. Would I rather pay an "American" for a quality product over a "Chinese" for a poor product? No. I buy a product with no regards for that manufacturers nationality. Last I checked, we all were humans sharing an entire planet.

[GMTool]

Originally Posted by SPCBA

Great post. I bought kooks because of the quality of materials. Quality of labor. Quality of fitment. Quality of performance. Also I love me some America, would much rather pay fellow Americans for a quality product and reward them for their RnD, their willingness to provide great products for a very small demographic, and their support of the American work force and economy.

If I can help it I wont buy a Chinese knock off with exploited labor. With no RnD done theirselves. Piss poor materiels. Piss poor workmanship. If you would rather support a countries economy that exploits their own people, murder their own people, and are our countries enemy in terms of philosophy and economy and militarily then have at it.

God bless America, the United States Military, and our beautiful freedoms.

Amen Brother Im with you. If all Americans would just stick up for America. Our own country.
Check out this video. Why U.S. is not competitive with China. Chinese factory workers, working in their safe workplace, getting paid a decent wage, and being treated fairly. They don't need Unions, manufacturing companies in China treat their employees very well, Im sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=oMOBqRVDOYQ

[litle88]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Ok reality is, I never even considered buying Kooks. Not in my Mustang days, and definitely not now. I would buy Pacesetter headers before I even think about buying Kooks. No, I wouldn't "love" to have a set. If I wanted a set THAT bad, then I would have bought a set.

Now you can justify and defend their pricing however you want. That's fine with me. And you can support and push them for your customers all you want. And it's fine that you talk about whats right and wrong in selling headers. You know what else is wrong? Installing aftermarket performance HF cats on vehicles with non-malfunctioning components that have less than 50,000 miles. How many times have you done that? You know what's even worse? Removing cats altogether on a vehicle that is intended to be used on the street. Ever done that? Ah, there it is. But I guess you can overlook certain things that are illegal while preaching about moral ethics...eh??


Oh, and don't get me wrong...CAIs and cat-backs are way over-priced as well. Which is a reason why I don't buy those either...at least not brand new from the over-priced companies. You see, there was a time not soo long ago when CAIs were around $150. And there was a time when I could get a cat-back system with X-pipe and HF cats for the price of an axle-back today. But now there are companies charging $1200 for a cat-back alone. And the general consensus here is that a cat-back offers no performance gains...despite the false advertisements from the manufacturers. So $1200 for a performance mod that only serves to make a car sound a certain way? You don't see anything wrong with that?

And yes, you are correct that if you want a certain product then you are gonna have to pay a certain amount. Me, I got champagne money and Coors Light taste. And I'll make do with the "cheap knock-off" stuff!!

But it's ok for YOU to have them right?

Wow clearly another Obama supporter!
Fugg it ill drink to that too! Cheers

[litle88]

I love my country, military and the American Work force!
Period

[Camarojt]

I think the intent of this post is to say that there is alot of hypocracy when it comes to the reasoning that people use or defend Kooks or any other brand of header on here. My idea, (which was just that, and idea) was to give both Kooks and comsumers a win.

First lets take the defense that some of you say you oppose outsourcing labor to make a less expensive header. 2SS45th, did you not buy Stainless Works headers for you Camaro?? Yes you did. Were you not aware that this company has DONE this exacty idea and called it Stainless Power?? This is the hypocrracy im talking about. To sit here and pretend that we are all US ONLY supporters in the world of products that we buy on a day to day basis is silly. Yes i am proud to be American and would gladly support American products if at a fair price per equal value.
There is 2 sides of this coin. The first is the transparent statement that you that are saying that you only would support US brands. Its like with other things you buy its ok. but when it comes to Camaro parts you become self riotous as tho you wouldnt dare buy anything overseas. Newsflash.......YOU DO!

The second side to this coin is that the headers such as OBX are crap or inferior quality. Are they exactly the quality of Kooks NO. Nobody disputes that. But the gen 5 Camaro headers are performing just as good as major brands so therefore the performance factor is nill. Next the quality of the steel is mentioned. Lets just say that you are absolutely correct that is isnt quite as good of steel as the US? Questionable.....but agreed for aguements sake. But even if its less than, its not like its falling apart at the welds or rusting out! So then here is the comparison. its fractionally less quality. Kooks might last longer than the car will, Obx might not last but 10 yrs?? Hardly a reason to call them crap.

My point to this is if Stainless Works can outsorce their headers and yet NOBODY has said a work about the fact that they are overseas made!! Then we are only left with the integrity of OBX in which i dont agree with at all. If they stole the design from Kooks as they are accused, then that is a good moral reason to stand on to not support them. Not that they are crap. Bc if they did copy Kooks, then actually they are great headers, theier just krooks in that respect.

So if i was Kooks id be a little pissed. They obviously havent won a law suit so why not hit OBX where it hurts. Do the same thing that Stainless Works has done and make a copy of their own header (not illegally) and sell it for $500 catless. Maryland Speed, you said that they wouldnt want to tarnish their name with a lesser made header. And some said that why would we pay overseas workers to do what we can do here in the US. This idea takes NO pay from American workers bc the people that are Super loyal Kooks supporters are ganna buy regular Kooks anyways. No loss. However, those of you that are looking to possibly buy OBX or Pacesetter, who in their right mind wouldnt buy a set of Kooks OS(overseas) headers knowing that they stole it from Nobody. Its theirs. Now Kooks punks OBX and takes ALL their sales andl laughs all the way to the bank and Camaro owners have a great option.

One last point on OBX vs Stainless Power. Would people be less likely to pounch on OBX if they cost 800 bucks? Bc it seems to me like what most people really hate about them is that somebody else has a header that performs well and paid alot less than they paid, then they hate on them for it.

[GaBoy25]

Originally Posted by Camarojt

I think the intent of this post is to say that there is alot of hypocracy when it comes to the reasoning that people use or defend Kooks or any other brand of header on here. My idea, (which was just that, and idea) was to give both Kooks and comsumers a win.

First lets take the defense that some of you say you oppose outsourcing labor to make a less expensive header. 2SS45th, did you not buy Stainless Works headers for you Camaro?? Yes you did. Were you not aware that this company has DONE this exacty idea and called it Stainless Power?? This is the hypocrracy im talking about. To sit here and pretend that we are all US ONLY supporters in the world of products that we buy on a day to day basis is silly. Yes i am proud to be American and would gladly support American products if at a fair price per equal value.
There is 2 sides of this coin. The first is the transparent statement that you that are saying that you only would support US brands. Its like with other things you buy its ok. but when it comes to Camaro parts you become self riotous as tho you wouldnt dare buy anything overseas. Newsflash.......YOU DO!

The second side to this coin is that the headers such as OBX are crap or inferior quality. Are they exactly the quality of Kooks NO. Nobody disputes that. But the gen 5 Camaro headers are performing just as good as major brands so therefore the performance factor is nill. Next the quality of the steel is mentioned. Lets just say that you are absolutely correct that is isnt quite as good of steel as the US? Questionable.....but agreed for aguements sake. But even if its less than, its not like its falling apart at the welds or rusting out! So then here is the comparison. its fractionally less quality. Kooks might last longer than the car will, Obx might not last but 10 yrs?? Hardly a reason to call them crap.

My point to this is if Stainless Works can outsorce their headers and yet NOBODY has said a work about the fact that they are overseas made!! Then we are only left with the integrity of OBX in which i dont agree with at all. If they stole the design from Kooks as they are accused, then that is a good moral reason to stand on to not support them. Not that they are crap. Bc if they did copy Kooks, then actually they are great headers, theier just krooks in that respect.

So if i was Kooks id be a little pissed. They obviously havent won a law suit so why not hit OBX where it hurts. Do the same thing that Stainless Works has done and make a copy of their own header (not illegally) and sell it for $500 catless. Maryland Speed, you said that they wouldnt want to tarnish their name with a lesser made header. And some said that why would we pay overseas workers to do what we can do here in the US. This idea takes NO pay from American workers bc the people that are Super loyal Kooks supporters are ganna buy regular Kooks anyways. No loss. However, those of you that are looking to possibly buy OBX or Pacesetter, who in their right mind wouldnt buy a set of Kooks OS(overseas) headers knowing that they stole it from Nobody. Its theirs. Now Kooks punks OBX and takes ALL their sales andl laughs all the way to the bank and Camaro owners have a great option.

One last point on OBX vs Stainless Power. Would people be less likely to pounch on OBX if they cost 800 bucks? Bc it seems to me like what most people really hate about them is that somebody else has a header that performs well and paid alot less than they paid, then they hate on them for it.

It just seems the haters always lash out first and force others to defend their purchase in the midst of damn near being called unpatriotic.

What ignorant hypocrisy.

[2SS45th]

Last time I checked I bought the ones made in the US, says so right on em. I wouldn't buy Stainless Power, but I understand the place in the maket for them. I'm not saying don't buy the chinese if you want to, but lets not move American jobs overseas. No politics involved, just helping out my countrymen here.

[Camarojt]

I agree, everybody has their right to buy their own preference. I think it's great that people want to support US brands. The only reason I pointed you out specifically was Bc the company the you bought from and supported did EXACTLY what you claim you don't like or support. Not that you actually bought them, but it's the same moral premise.

I personally love Kooks brand headers. I'm not a Kooks basher at all. They are great headers. Are they overpriced?? That's an opinionated question. Most would say YES. but here I will agree with Maryland Speed, they are no more out of line that $400 cai's or $1000 cat back exhausts. I think it's all a bit overpriced but it's all relative.

I was just giving a way to help everyone involved and kinda put the wrong that OBX did to bed. Fact: OBX AREN'T CRAP!! Accept it and don't bash them. If you don't like that they are made overseas, then bash EVERYTHING made overseas in your house too, not just headers. If you buy OBX good job bro. You wanted more hp at a cheaper cost and a hair less quality! Nothing wrong with that.

Some people argue that they don't want crap on their cars. I think it's safe to say that nobody wants " crap" on their car. If OBX was crap, people wouldn't be buying them.
People also say the only want the best on their car. Really?? Then why did you buy KOOKS? Arguably ARH AND LG are better quality and perform marginally better! A full 1 to 2 hp! But you didn't buy them did you. Then you KOOKS are crap! That's the thought process most are using.

Now I want to give a HUGE PROPS TO TEXAS SPEED!!
Made in the US!! Look GREAT!! Perform GREAT! Fit GREAT! only about $100 bucks higher than OBX! I think they deserve the trophy!! And you say that to make a quality header it's gonna be around $1000 bucks? Looks like they busted that theory!! Go ahead attack their quality?? What?? Can't hear ya? Oh... Their steel is ALSO US grade?? B But they must not perform well?? Ha wrong again! They perform GREAT! So now what other reasoning can you twist to justify a $1000 set of headers? Profits!!!

It's funny that the biggest opponent of OBX is a Speed Shop that doesn't sell them! Is it Bc they just wanna inform you on the truth?? Maybe?
Or is it that they wanna tell you the truth BUT exaggerate the negatives BC every customer they loose to an EBAY header is a possible customer they won't get to buy their brands they sell and push!

Kooks = great quality, slightly overpriced
OBX = good quality, performs great, cheap as hell
But company stole design. So call their business shiesty.