Shortblock vs. Engine Rebuild? Help? - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

UNRIVALED SS · 01-31-2013, 07:52 PM

All in all I got the best shortblock components and assembly I could for my budget. That way if I want to get more aggressive in the future I have a foundation in place for it. It's like anything. The more you want the more involved it can get. I think the point everyone is making , is for you to be prepared for a multitude of supporting components that you may have overlooked . However, if you keep the power level conservative you could build a very solid combo with a respectable level of performance without some of the added expense. I can tell you all these guys have given you some really good info and realistic expectations. It seems like a lot and it is but man is it a lot of fun drive with that level of performance. So don't let the expense and time scare you off. I have a conservative power level compared to most of the cars talked about here. It's a solid combo that's quick and fun to drive and is very respectable on the occasional trip to Hub city drag way or wherever I happen to run. So you should be able to go into the deal well informed . Good Luck with it .

Mchlgrrsn · 01-31-2013, 09:37 PM

All in all I would repeat the process again, and again lol. I would recommend doing it to anyone who has the money and a second car. Just know what you are getting into money wise and the countless trips to the tuner as he works all the little kinks out. The hardest part is taking it easy on all the new parts until they "break" in, no pun intended. You will have a kick ass ride when it's done

47AJV8 · 01-31-2013, 10:16 PM

Wow. I mean WOW, you guys are great! Honestly there are the most helpful people ever on this forum! Thanks so much! But back to business, is 750bhp a more reasonable goal? Would it cost significantly less than a 860~bhp build? Also, I don't drag race, would a 9" rear really be needed? Or could 1000hp axles do the job fine? (sorry if i'm making some stupid mistake, like you can't have one without the other or something!)
I've been doing a lot of pricing out, I love my spreadsheets, and it seems like before the engine/blower I'll be at over 9K (to clarify, over 9K including ported manifold, clutch, axles, ported heads, LT Headers, 3" exhaust, (just in parts!) . That seem about right? I feel like it should be much higher!

2SS45th · 01-31-2013, 10:35 PM

You can skip the ported manifold and heads, the gain will be minimal. You don't have to a 9", I didn't. I was told by JRE that the Eaton TrueTrac, axles, and a driveshaft would do what I wanted; which is drag race it. 750 at the crank is significantly less, you could nearly do it on a stock motor, but longevity would be low. It sounds like you are headed in the right track, let us know if you have any other questions!

Mchlgrrsn · 02-01-2013, 12:00 AM

Axles are a must, when the block is out labor should be minimal putting the clutch in, so I would consider that a must. I did the 9 inch conversion because I made the mistake of put 4.10 gears in my ride early on, they did not hold up. So I was kind of forced to. Finding a good builder is a must, if you have to be comfortable with him, there's a lot of hacks out there. Good luck with your build.

UNRIVALED SS · 02-01-2013, 02:13 PM

Concerning axels and rear end and clutch. It seems the M6(manual trans) cars are much harder on these components than the auto. The auto trans seems to obsorb some of the extreme pressure this kind if power puts on the drive train. So that being said. From what I gather, axels become under critical stress with the M6 around 600-625 WHP. Then gears after that. The clutch probably sooner. So for the M6 those components become a lot more critical but I know of 700 WHP cars with an upgraded original rear end. So you can get away without a 9" if you upgrade with some smart components. I would say clutch upgrade is a primary ,as stated before. The engine is out so labor is minimal for that particular upgrade. One considerable expense example going from 600 WHP to 700 WHP would be pulley system. You will need an 8-10 rib system for more power so thats an example. Fuel system requirements also factor in. So 750 crank horsepower is probably 3-5K less than 850 crank horsepower. Keep in mind these are rough ideas of what to expect and could be substantially more or less depending. Again, go for it and good luck.

Ken_ · 02-01-2013, 06:28 PM

How much HP can the stock LS3 engine handle before it needs to be built up? The bolt-on turbo kits I've been reading about here never said anything about building up the engine before going forced induction. Can the factory internals hold up to say 650 RWHP or is this on the ragged edge?

2SS45th · 02-01-2013, 08:10 PM

Very ragged edge in my opinion, 600 wheel is doable, but it won't hold forever. A lot of the longevity is decided by how much you keep on dumpin in the coal. 550 is probably a good number, I'd feel comfortable with that in my stock motor.

Chris82xx · 02-01-2013, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken_

How much HP can the stock LS3 engine handle before it needs to be built up? The bolt-on turbo kits I've been reading about here never said anything about building up the engine before going forced induction. Can the factory internals hold up to say 650 RWHP or is this on the ragged edge?

I would also say that it depends on how you drive the car. I've put about 9K miles since I've had my S/C put on the car. There are a lot of variables to consider.

Ken_ · 02-02-2013, 02:04 AM

Well my driving habits have changed over the years, and I pretty much stay the speed limit. I'm looking down the road for when I will take her for test and tune nights.

In my EVO VIII, on stock internals I'm putting down 417 WHP on 91 octane and 457 on E85. The 4G63T in the EVO VII-IX are rated at 320 on the fly, but I went as far as to go with ARP bolts/studs all around and Cosworth metal head gasket (just for my own peace of mind) and a tune. It's a DD and I have power at my disposal. I'm only on it when I need it or want to get away from crowds on the road. I'm comfortable with my set-up on the EVO because Mitsubishi engineered the 4G63 with a lot of margin for safety, but the LS3 is new to me. It's exciting to think of the possibilities.

I suppose knowing my habits, I'll end up doing the same for the LS3 when I decide to go forced induction. I prefer turbos over supercharger simply because of preference.

47AJV8 · 02-02-2013, 01:29 PM

Thanks everybody, ya if I have any questions I won't be afraid to ask! Thanks again!

01-31-2013, 09:37 PM	#16
Mchlgrrsn Stroked and blown Drives: 2010 LS3 2SS Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Bridgewater, NJ Posts: 1,458 View My Garage	All in all I would repeat the process again, and again lol. I would recommend doing it to anyone who has the money and a second car. Just know what you are getting into money wise and the countless trips to the tuner as he works all the little kinks out. The hardest part is taking it easy on all the new parts until they "break" in, no pun intended. You will have a kick ass ride when it's done __________________ LME 416 LS3 shortblock/Callies Compstar 4340 4"crank/Callies 6.125 H beams rods/Wiesco 4.07 forged pistons/Cam Motion custom LS1/LME ported heads /maggie TVS2300/I West 8rib 10%OD /3.2 pulley/OD cog drive/JRE tensioner/ID850 /ADM dual fuel/Kooks LT 1 7/8/magna flow2.5 /cat delete/Roto Fab CAI /MGW short throw /SPEC super twin clutch/G Force built trans,carbon syncro rear shaft upgrade /DSS 9"single CF DS /Strange 3.70/31 spline trutrac/MT DR's/earls oil cooler /tuned KHC

01-31-2013, 10:16 PM	#17
47AJV8 Drives: A White Car Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 342	Wow. I mean WOW, you guys are great! Honestly there are the most helpful people ever on this forum! Thanks so much! But back to business, is 750bhp a more reasonable goal? Would it cost significantly less than a 860~bhp build? Also, I don't drag race, would a 9" rear really be needed? Or could 1000hp axles do the job fine? (sorry if i'm making some stupid mistake, like you can't have one without the other or something!) I've been doing a lot of pricing out, I love my spreadsheets, and it seems like before the engine/blower I'll be at over 9K (to clarify, over 9K including ported manifold, clutch, axles, ported heads, LT Headers, 3" exhaust, (just in parts!) . That seem about right? I feel like it should be much higher! __________________ "From ABS shudder that came on surprisingly early in the lousy brake pedal's travel to a looser rear end than Kim Kardashian"

01-31-2013, 10:35 PM	#18
2SS45th Drives: 11 Seconds or Faster Join Date: May 2012 Location: Arvada, Colorado Posts: 2,797 View My Garage	You can skip the ported manifold and heads, the gain will be minimal. You don't have to a 9", I didn't. I was told by JRE that the Eaton TrueTrac, axles, and a driveshaft would do what I wanted; which is drag race it. 750 at the crank is significantly less, you could nearly do it on a stock motor, but longevity would be low. It sounds like you are headed in the right track, let us know if you have any other questions! __________________ I Ain't About That Stock Life.

02-01-2013, 12:00 AM	#19
Mchlgrrsn Stroked and blown Drives: 2010 LS3 2SS Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Bridgewater, NJ Posts: 1,458 View My Garage	Axles are a must, when the block is out labor should be minimal putting the clutch in, so I would consider that a must. I did the 9 inch conversion because I made the mistake of put 4.10 gears in my ride early on, they did not hold up. So I was kind of forced to. Finding a good builder is a must, if you have to be comfortable with him, there's a lot of hacks out there. Good luck with your build. __________________ LME 416 LS3 shortblock/Callies Compstar 4340 4"crank/Callies 6.125 H beams rods/Wiesco 4.07 forged pistons/Cam Motion custom LS1/LME ported heads /maggie TVS2300/I West 8rib 10%OD /3.2 pulley/OD cog drive/JRE tensioner/ID850 /ADM dual fuel/Kooks LT 1 7/8/magna flow2.5 /cat delete/Roto Fab CAI /MGW short throw /SPEC super twin clutch/G Force built trans,carbon syncro rear shaft upgrade /DSS 9"single CF DS /Strange 3.70/31 spline trutrac/MT DR's/earls oil cooler /tuned KHC

02-01-2013, 02:13 PM	#20
UNRIVALED SS Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: El Paso Posts: 705 View My Garage	Concerning axels and rear end and clutch. It seems the M6(manual trans) cars are much harder on these components than the auto. The auto trans seems to obsorb some of the extreme pressure this kind if power puts on the drive train. So that being said. From what I gather, axels become under critical stress with the M6 around 600-625 WHP. Then gears after that. The clutch probably sooner. So for the M6 those components become a lot more critical but I know of 700 WHP cars with an upgraded original rear end. So you can get away without a 9" if you upgrade with some smart components. I would say clutch upgrade is a primary ,as stated before. The engine is out so labor is minimal for that particular upgrade. One considerable expense example going from 600 WHP to 700 WHP would be pulley system. You will need an 8-10 rib system for more power so thats an example. Fuel system requirements also factor in. So 750 crank horsepower is probably 3-5K less than 850 crank horsepower. Keep in mind these are rough ideas of what to expect and could be substantially more or less depending. Again, go for it and good luck. Last edited by UNRIVALED SS; 02-01-2013 at 06:11 PM.

01-31-2013, 07:52 PM	#15
UNRIVALED SS Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: El Paso Posts: 705 View My Garage	All in all I got the best shortblock components and assembly I could for my budget. That way if I want to get more aggressive in the future I have a foundation in place for it. It's like anything. The more you want the more involved it can get. I think the point everyone is making , is for you to be prepared for a multitude of supporting components that you may have overlooked . However, if you keep the power level conservative you could build a very solid combo with a respectable level of performance without some of the added expense. I can tell you all these guys have given you some really good info and realistic expectations. It seems like a lot and it is but man is it a lot of fun drive with that level of performance. So don't let the expense and time scare you off. I have a conservative power level compared to most of the cars talked about here. It's a solid combo that's quick and fun to drive and is very respectable on the occasional trip to Hub city drag way or wherever I happen to run. So you should be able to go into the deal well informed . Good Luck with it .

02-01-2013, 06:28 PM	#21
Ken_ Tally Ho! Drives: 13 2SS/RS 6M, 05 Mitsubishi Evo 8 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: KU Posts: 239	How much HP can the stock LS3 engine handle before it needs to be built up? The bolt-on turbo kits I've been reading about here never said anything about building up the engine before going forced induction. Can the factory internals hold up to say 650 RWHP or is this on the ragged edge? __________________ 2013 2SS/RS-package Black w/IOM interior 6M Bone Stock

02-01-2013, 08:10 PM	#22
2SS45th Drives: 11 Seconds or Faster Join Date: May 2012 Location: Arvada, Colorado Posts: 2,797 View My Garage	Very ragged edge in my opinion, 600 wheel is doable, but it won't hold forever. A lot of the longevity is decided by how much you keep on dumpin in the coal. 550 is probably a good number, I'd feel comfortable with that in my stock motor. __________________ I Ain't About That Stock Life.

02-02-2013, 02:04 AM	#24
Ken_ Tally Ho! Drives: 13 2SS/RS 6M, 05 Mitsubishi Evo 8 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: KU Posts: 239	Well my driving habits have changed over the years, and I pretty much stay the speed limit. I'm looking down the road for when I will take her for test and tune nights. In my EVO VIII, on stock internals I'm putting down 417 WHP on 91 octane and 457 on E85. The 4G63T in the EVO VII-IX are rated at 320 on the fly, but I went as far as to go with ARP bolts/studs all around and Cosworth metal head gasket (just for my own peace of mind) and a tune. It's a DD and I have power at my disposal. I'm only on it when I need it or want to get away from crowds on the road. I'm comfortable with my set-up on the EVO because Mitsubishi engineered the 4G63 with a lot of margin for safety, but the LS3 is new to me. It's exciting to think of the possibilities. I suppose knowing my habits, I'll end up doing the same for the LS3 when I decide to go forced induction. I prefer turbos over supercharger simply because of preference. __________________ 2013 2SS/RS-package Black w/IOM interior 6M Bone Stock

02-02-2013, 01:29 PM	#25
47AJV8 Drives: A White Car Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 342	Thanks everybody, ya if I have any questions I won't be afraid to ask! Thanks again! __________________ "From ABS shudder that came on surprisingly early in the lousy brake pedal's travel to a looser rear end than Kim Kardashian"