What you wish....

[Partlow]

Originally Posted by SuperSport2011

It makes perfect since.

I see what you did there..

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by AllNaturall

Okay....Mr. Wyndham. Just to remove the "This OP is a retard" from the air, I have seen the Viper, Corvette, Camaro, and few other factory specials that have made it on to TV. I know there is a lot involved in the assembly process and the men/women involved are probably worth their weight in gold to their respective manufacturer. My "useless" comment was more aimed to the paper pushers of the business. You have made a bunch of valid points and I sincerely appreciate your input. However.... For us enthusiasts that do love this car so much, do you think it would be at all possible for say SLP to pick up these special orders? Charge us say $1,000 for this "special" build process?

Originally Posted by AllNaturall

The $1,000 would be for the service of picking your own options. This wouldn't be for say just they HID upgrade, but for being able to pick EXACTLY what you do or don't want installed. And your RS theory doesn't really make a valid argument. The "old" way of ordering cars is how we got super rare optioned cars that down the road if well maintained where/are worth 10x more.

I don't think you're a "retard". I hope I didn't come off that way...you don't appear to be upset for the sake of negativity, and I can appreciate that! It's been a very long time since we've had a thread so sincere about this.

The main problem with your idea is that SLP would have to hand-build the cars nearly from body-in-whites, because certain options can only be installed (in a factory situation) in certain steps during the build process. For instance...it's pretty hard to install a HUD after the dash has been bolted on, and the special window glass installed. And even if, somehow, that were approved...GM would loose all quality control over these special Camaros. This would cost a LOT more than $1000.00...

I think the closest you're going to get to what you want to see....is a base-model car...like a 1SS...with a heavy helping of after-market products.

[PalmerGA]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I think the closest you're going to get to what you want to see....is a base-model car...like a 1SS...with a heavy helping of after-market products.

And that's the thing (to me). If you don't want the full RS trim package, for instance, get the base model and mod it to your personal choice. I think, GM and the aftermarket gurus, have done a fantastic job of offering "bolt-ons" for just about any configuration you could possibly desire.

As a person who has worked for 30+ years dealing with modifications and revisions to original manufacturer's configurations to military equipment, I can tell you that it is a logistical nightmare and (sometimes) nearly impossible to produce maintenance and warrantee procedures to fit every possible scenario. The cost to do so is certainly prohibitive as you (the taxpayer who funds such configurations) can attest.

The "packages" GM offers on the Camaro (as just one example) are really quite good and to "custom order" varios features would jack up the price of a single unit astronomically.

[90503]

Not trying to whip a dead horse here, but I read all the posts...all good and informative...but gotta say, I can't believe there is no wriggle-room at all for customer desired options, above what is already offered...

...If anything, I would have thought it would be a natural, easier than ever, to offer all sorts of combinations with all this computer-age ordering, manufacturing and assembly, instead of being too expensive of a burden to accomplish...

...Seems like the "die is cast" and there's no changing it...One thing that may be overlooked in all this, in my opinion, is should some auto-maker return to, for lack of a better term, "laundry-list" of options, their sales potential would sky-rocket...but no manufacturer is doing it, because, well, nobody else is...just my $.02.

[SuperSport2011]

Originally Posted by Partlow

I see what you did there..

No clue what you're talking about, I’m just agreeing with the man.

[INTIMIDAT3R]

What I wish....

That it was like the good ol' days where you could get a base model with an asphalt eating V8.

[AllNaturall]

I never wanted or meant for this to turn into an argument. I can handle a bit of negativity. All I want is genuine answers and an educated discussion.



So are the SLP ZL and Panther vehicles a body in white production? Or any of their other cars/trucks for that matter?

[Jrichards73]

I got all of the available options, and well, it really wasn't a lot. Try optioning a BMW. GM is trying to give you a more for your money feeling. The 1SS vs 2SS as an example, when you get the 2SS they can say leather, hud, etc are standard, when it is really an "optioned" 1SS. It would manufacturer the same, just spinning it differently. Dealers order and option most cars anyways to hit certain price points for their market. Very few people would hand option out a car. For a "custom" build everything would still build the same, you would just have to wait longer for your car. Logistically the system would work the same plant side. I just don't know what options you are trying NOT to get, as there isn't that many.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by AllNaturall

I never wanted or meant for this to turn into an argument. I can handle a bit of negativity. All I want is genuine answers and an educated discussion.



So are the SLP ZL and Panther vehicles a body in white production? Or any of their other cars/trucks for that matter?

Nope. The SLP ZL special editions are gussied-up SS Camaros. Bought from the factory, adding stiffer sway bars, a supercharger, wheels, etc...Somehow (I haven't worked out the logistics) SLP gets dealers' cars for modification, sends them back all fast and pretty for the dealers to sell them.

90503...I'm sure there'd be interest in a specialized company like that. The costs of the car will be prohibitively expensive to compete, though. I don't think sales would soar past the even the lower-level "mainstream" manufacturers like Nissan, or Mazda etc.

[CyberPunk223]

it's makes perfect sense to me, people usually want a completely loaded car or just a base model,with the packages they dont have to do a lot of searching for the car they want. I got the LS because it was a cheap car, I would have gladly paid the $450 for the BA auido system but you had to have another $1,500 package to have that option. I However i will almost certainly upgrade the stereo with aftermarket parts and turn out ahead in the end, just about any option you want is available as after markets or as a dealer accesory. Plus the options are cheaper when you buy them as a package.

[Obzen]

Its not necessarily true that you can't get a la carte options. Some things are available dealer installed after the fact. Most things would cost more than the packages themselves but it is a possibility.

As stated, having each option available individually would be a nightmare for manufacturing. If you could have your car built 100% to your specs, the time wouldn't be a couple extra weeks. It would likely be months.

[fbodfather]

well....I could give you a whole dissertation on why there are limited build combinations - but I don't have the time to type for a few hours and I doubt that anyone has time to read what I type.

A couple of thoughts to share:

1 - packaging options allows us to eliminate huge numbers of parts numbers - for example - putting for instance power mirrors, power windows, power locks as standard equipment versus stand-alone options eliminated over 20 different wiring harnesses.......which in turn allows us to keep costs down - which is what allows us to offer a well-equipped 323 hp Camaro for under 25K.

2. - want virtually perfect build quality? Build every car exactly the same -


3. - a 'tidbit' question. Take a guess as to how many build combinations one could order a Camaro in the 1997 model year. (NOT including color combinations)....

No peeking.........

Guess!
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over 15 million build combinations -- and we sold exactly 60,202 Camaros in the 1997 model year....................

See?


So - what would happen was that a dealer would order -- say - a Z28 with power windows, but no power locks. People would look at the car and say "well - I'm not buying this Camaro because I want power locks!"....and so the car would sit............and sit................and sit.................and sit...........

...sometimes for nearly a year.

Now - we know how most Camaro owners polish their cars 4 times a week - right? Do you think a car sitting on a lot for a year - sometimes in the burning sun - is going to be 'perfect' in terms of the paint and finish?

...........see where I'm going with this???

The bottom line:

There are limited build combinations and option packages because:

>substantial cost savings which means you get a more affordable car or truck

>Improved Quality

>Order and stocking simplicity

>Part number reduction and complexity reduction........

Think about this: Does ANY manufacturer allow you to free-flow options like we once did? With exception of Rolls Royce and Bentley - no - that's because of the reasons mentioned above.

Let me also go on record saying that I very much remember the halcyon days when one could walk into a dealership -- get out a carbon paper form - and start checking off dozens of boxes - it seemed great at the time - but I ALSO remember my father making some PRETTY SERIOUS mistakes when 'checking off boxes' as he ordered inventory for stock..................

.....such as the 1968 Caprice Estate Wagon :

- 396 engine - (check!)

woodgrain - (check!) (oh wait - that was standard back then...)-

Air conditioning -- (Check!)

AM/FM Stereo Radio (check!)

Roof Rack (check!)

Whitewall tires (check!)

Floor mats (check!)


Powerwindowspowersteeringpowerbrakes (check check check!)

Seafrost Green (kinda pewter looking) (check!)

Blue vinyl interior (...ewwww...... this isn't gonna end well.....)

4-speed manual transmission on the floor


(...HOLYMOTHEROFALLTHAT"SGOODANDKIND!!!)

(HOWAREWEGONNASELLthisNIGHTMARE???)

..........SEE?


Or the time that *someone* helped Dad order some Suburbans --


.........and forgot to put a check in the "Power Steering" box............

(........I do believe I may have seen my life flash before my eyes.....)

( X 10,000 )

Yes - we want to make you happy. we also know that we can't keep 100 percent of the people happy 100 percent of the time.

Hope this helps to better understand the issue.......

[AllNaturall]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Nope. The SLP ZL special editions are gussied-up SS Camaros. Bought from the factory, adding stiffer sway bars, a supercharger, wheels, etc...Somehow (I haven't worked out the logistics) SLP gets dealers' cars for modification, sends them back all fast and pretty for the dealers to sell them.

90503...I'm sure there'd be interest in a specialized company like that. The costs of the car will be prohibitively expensive to compete, though. I don't think sales would soar past the even the lower-level "mainstream" manufacturers like Nissan, or Mazda etc.

Well that explains why the price tags are so large on those cars!

Fbodfather - I did take the time to read your post, and as you stated I'm sure you could type for hours on the subject (I would have read it!) Of course there where accidents with the old carbon paper check the box system. There should always be a double check on things like that. Ok so now fast forward to today. Bring back that system of ordering, except in digital format. Everyone learn from your mistakes and double check that all the boxes you want are there. Order a car! If a dealer orders 1,000 cars/trucks and FUBARs the order, that's on them. I'm sure that still happens today anyway.

I have a feeling this thread is just going in circles.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by AllNaturall

.... Bring back that system of ordering, except in digital format. Everyone learn from your mistakes and double check that all the boxes you want are there. Order a car! If a dealer orders 1,000 cars/trucks and FUBARs the order, that's on them. I'm sure that still happens today anyway.

I have a feeling this thread is just going in circles.

Yes - it's going in circles - because to do what you want us to do would be so prohibitively expensive (.........you have to trust me on this!) that we'd be out of business pretty quick. We simply would not be price competitive.

(.......when I say 'trust me' - I remember being carried thru the process of 'option de-proliferation' - kicking and screaming...............and then they sat me down and showed the the numbers -- the savings....and I was simply stunned into silence. --- which of course has mebbe happened once or twice in my long life...........so like I say - the reason no manufacturer will allow you to do this today is because of the expense........)

(......somehow I don't think you'd agree to allow us to do this if it raised the base price of the car to $30K....)