CAI question

[Roto-fab 1]

There are many choices out there! Here's a link to the description of the Roto-fab CAI system. If you scroll down to the middle of the page you will see some close up pics of the components as well as a good description explaining what makes our system different than the others on the market.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...install&page=4

[Nxtr]

I posted this in another post but no responses.

Looks good...

I have a question though, aside from the looks it seems to me that the oem intake with a high flow filter would be just as good. if not better. I say this in respect to the "cold air" part of the setup, or am I missing something here?

V/R,
Nick

[joelster]

I would love to see a back-to-back comparison of an OTR CAI kit against the Roto-Fab kit. The comparison I'd like to see is a running/driving scan of what the ecm sees at the IAT sensor. I really don't think that underhood K+N filtered composite piece would stand a chance. I read your post #76 on the thread you linked and I got a little chuckle out of it.

I run a single plane intake on an older LT1 Camaro. It has a custom sheetmetal elbow (aluminum) on Edelbrock Victor EFI base. I have some generic tubing going over the radiator sucking cool outside air into the MAF. I can drive the car for an hour in 80 degree weather, jump out, pop the hood, and take the palm of my hand and place it on top of the motor (the elbow). If it were made out of composite it wouldn't make one bit of difference. Your argument about the incoming air getting the transfered heat from a metal CAI tube is moot (see post #76). There is simply too much air rushing by when the motor is running to have the metal "heat" it. Those OTR kits will be cool to the touch, guaranteed. Please do a scan test in a 30 mph drive and watch the IAT's. A popular tuner did a driving tune on a 2010 and was amazed at how rapidly the IAT's dropped due to an OTR kit that was equipped on the car. Your kit makes hp gains on a dyno by eliminating the resonator tubes (which impede flow) and running a K+N filter which helps flow. Being composite makes it cheaper for you to make. It's a nice looking piece but it doesn't have the science behind it to trump the other CAI kits out there. Your kit is much better than stock, but it's not going to be better than an OTR kit.

[d69chris]

Roto-Fab!

[Number_9]

Lots of talk about CAI's today... funny, but cool! If you are thinking about a CAI, then think about getting a real CAI, as opposed to the others you'll see on the market.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good CAI's out there... then, there's the ADM Performance CAI... hands down, the most functional, best designed unit out there... out, and it's actually a CAI with an actual airbox and not "two walls and some weatherstripping" like pretty much everyone else's CAI.

Check out this thread to read more about what I mean, ADM Performance kicks ass (and no, I do not work there!): http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42316

[joelster]

Originally Posted by Number_9

Lots of talk about CAI's today... funny, but cool! If you are thinking about a CAI, then think about getting a real CAI, as opposed to the others you'll see on the market.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good CAI's out there... then, there's the ADM Performance CAI... hands down, the most functional, best designed unit out there... out, and it's actually a CAI with an actual airbox and not "two walls and some weatherstripping" like pretty much everyone else's CAI.

Check out this thread to read more about what I mean, ADM Performance kicks ass (and no, I do not work there!): http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42316

Best designed?

Hrmm.....it sucks air from around the washer bottle. Seems like that would be stagnant air to me. The BEST place to suck air would be directly behind the grilles in the front, but what would I know.

[ADM PERFORMANCE]

"The BEST place to suck air would be directly behind the grilles in the front, but what would I know. "

I agree - This is why our air intake has a direct path to were gm wants the air,You would know this if you pulled the front end off your car or just took a good look at the area just between the radiator and headlight on the driver side.There is a scoop that directs air to that area.It is OEM installed..and from the looks of it may soon be connected to the mail slot one day by GM.

Trust me I wish we had air like the OTR ones...but we don't on our street version..Our race version does however at the cost of loosing the washer bottle.

Andy

[Number_9]

Originally Posted by joelster

Best designed?

Hrmm.....it sucks air from around the washer bottle. Seems like that would be stagnant air to me. The BEST place to suck air would be directly behind the grilles in the front, but what would I know.

I agree OTR is the way to go too... or directly from behind the front grilles... and that's an option which I understand to be coming for ADM's CAI too.

[quoting] "a “FULL RACE VERSION” available as well, which enhances the factory ducting system to TRAP and DIRECT a cold air stream directly into the SEALED AIR BOX."

That said, how many CAI's on the market and at a reasonable price are OTR? If we're comparing non-OTR to non-OTR, ADM's standard box is the ticket. If we're talking OTR to OTR, that's a conversation I'll have to read/watch/and listen to.

[joelster]

Originally Posted by Number_9

I agree OTR is the way to go too... or directly from behind the front grilles... and that's an option which I understand to be coming for ADM's CAI too.

OTR is the best that is out there right now. The only thing better would be an aftermarket hood with a scoop on it, or some sort of Ram-Air setup with a scoop.

Originally Posted by Number_9

[quoting] "a “FULL RACE VERSION” available as well, which enhances the factory ducting system to TRAP and DIRECT a cold air stream directly into the SEALED AIR BOX."

I guarantee it won't flow as good, too many bends compared to the near straight-shot with the OTR kits. It will be much better than stock but still not as good.

Originally Posted by Number_9

That said, how many CAI's on the market and at a reasonable price are OTR? If we're comparing non-OTR to non-OTR, ADM's standard box is the ticket. If we're talking OTR to OTR, that's a conversation I'll have to read/watch/and listen to.

Reasonable price is a VERY relative term. What is reasonable to you might be pennies to someone else. These are $33,000-$40,000 cars, not some used cars that are being bought by kids out of high school. Most of these cars will be owned for long periods of time. Break down $500 over a 5 or 6 year period and the mod is just pennies a day, literally.

Your argument about non-OTR vs non-OTR kits is a good one. However the OP asked about which kit is best. He didn't ask which non-OTR kit was the best. After looking at SEVERAL non-OTR kits, I would agree that the ADM piece looks to be on top, simply be the lengths they went to get it away from the heat and into better incoming air.

If it were my car, and I was buying a kit, I would still go OTR.

[ADM PERFORMANCE]

Originally Posted by joelster

OTR is the best that is out there right now. The only thing better would be an aftermarket hood with a scoop on it, or some sort of Ram-Air setup with a scoop.


I guarantee it won't flow as good, too many bends compared to the near straight-shot with the OTR kits. It will be much better than stock but still not as good.



Reasonable price is a VERY relative term. What is reasonable to you might be pennies to someone else. These are $33,000-$40,000 cars, not some used cars that are being bought by kids out of high school. Most of these cars will be owned for long periods of time. Break down $500 over a 5 or 6 year period and the mod is just pennies a day, literally.

Your argument about non-OTR vs non-OTR kits is a good one. However the OP asked about which kit is best. He didn't ask which non-OTR kit was the best. After looking at SEVERAL non-OTR kits, I would agree that the ADM piece looks to be on top, simply be the lengths they went to get it away from the heat and into better incoming air.

If it were my car, and I was buying a kit, I would still go OTR.

Some good valid points here.

But if our Intake can flow enough air to make 1000hp ,Do you think the OTR will make more?I will bet not!

I have a build I am starting in 3 weeks that will test the limits of our Intake system...It will use the same kit we sell for $499.00...It will make 850 rwhp guaranteed,That equates into roughly 1000 hp at the flywheel.Yes it will have a Maggie 2300 on it,so testing any OTR is out of the question currently.


Andy

[joelster]

Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE

Some good valid points here.

But if our Intake can flow enough air to make 1000hp ,Do you think the OTR will make more?I will bet not!

It may have the capability of supplying enough air to feed a big motor but it doesn't mean it will outperform something else. That is not a really good point there. We are talking about stock cars with bolt-ons. The factory system is sufficient at supplying enough air to feed the motor, would you agree? 426hp out of 6.2L seems pretty good to me. These kits just enable the motor to inhale easier.

Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE

I have a build I am starting in 3 weeks that will test the limits of our Intake system...It will use the same kit we sell for $499.00...It will make 850 rwhp guaranteed,That equates into roughly 1000 hp at the flywheel.Yes it will have a Maggie 2300 on it,so testing any OTR is out of the question currently.


Andy

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by joelster

OTR is the best that is out there right now. The only thing better would be an aftermarket hood with a scoop on it, or some sort of Ram-Air setup with a scoop.


I guarantee it won't flow as good, too many bends compared to the near straight-shot with the OTR kits. It will be much better than stock but still not as good.



Reasonable price is a VERY relative term. What is reasonable to you might be pennies to someone else. These are $33,000-$40,000 cars, not some used cars that are being bought by kids out of high school. Most of these cars will be owned for long periods of time. Break down $500 over a 5 or 6 year period and the mod is just pennies a day, literally.

Your argument about non-OTR vs non-OTR kits is a good one. However the OP asked about which kit is best. He didn't ask which non-OTR kit was the best. After looking at SEVERAL non-OTR kits, I would agree that the ADM piece looks to be on top, simply be the lengths they went to get it away from the heat and into better incoming air.

If it were my car, and I was buying a kit, I would still go OTR.

Sooo, which OTR manufacturer do you use? Do you have the L99 or LS3?

[HDDAN]

111

[rodimus prime]

Originally Posted by joelster

You will never see the same gains in a 5th gen Camaro, by swiss-cheesing the stock box as opposed to running a GOOD CAI kit. The good CAI kits for 5th gens will get their air from over the radiator, period. You do not want to be sucking underhood air. It will always be warmer, it will hit the IAT sensor and possibly cause reduced timing and fuel trims by the ecm. They MAY make a decent gain over the stock setup on a dyno with the hood up and a big fan in front of them, but nobody drives their car like that.

I know of a few of the kits that are out there right now and one has thrown a check engine light, which is not good. Most likely caused by a misplaced MAF sensor. This is overlooked by some of the companies. It is imperitive that it is placed properly. You simply cannot go down to your local hardware store and buy some 3" piping and whip up your own "kit" and expect it to work perfectly. Some of the companies out there seem to do this in a rush to get their pieces to the market.

Also, the comment made earlier about "must be composite", "metal is no good" is total BS. Yes, the composite will not heak soak like metal will, but when the CAI is sucking in outside air it will always be cool to the touch. The popular OTR kits will never get warm as long as the engine is running. The constant rush of outside air will overpower the transfer of engine heat to the metal tube.

Lets just say that a vararam or New Era performance otr intakes were better. Where are the dynos showing it? Where are the 1/4 mile runs to prove it? Where are the testimonials?

Pretty much every other non otr intake company has posted numbers to be with in the 20hp ish range. The OTR guys will make what...5hp more...maybe? Is that really worth another $200 for something that may or may not make any more power?

Besides the open filters, the one thing every single CAI has in common is that they remove the stock baffling and those air pocket noise reducing hp robbing tubes....as seen below.




The red shows the portion that all CAI companies get rid of. Those pocket in pretty large amounts of air. Remove those and you obviously have more air going directly into the motor instead of dittybopping around in some pocket of insanity.

Now if you were to swiss cheese or completely cut the bottom out of your stock box and remove these tubes with the addition to a K&N I would bet you would see almost exactly the same hp as aftermarket CAI'S.

As for the intake temps, I dont think there is going to be much difference when your rolling down the road whether your grabbing your air on top of the radiator or behind the headlights. So far Im not aware of any testing that says otherwise.

I went with a Roto-Fab because it looks good and was cheap. My car was running pig rich in stock trim and needed a tune badly. When I installed the Roto-Fab, my a/f ratio was almost normal and tuning left little hp to be gained. Im begining to think that maybe they tuned these motors with a different intake or prehaps not even on the road, but on motors that were on an engine stand with as much air as they could handle.