The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by joelster

I just read through this whole thread and none of you guys answered the Op's question as to why the Ford motor is more efficient, lol.

It has A LOT to do with 4-valves per cylinder for the Ford vs 2-valves per cylinder for the Chevy. In a round cylinder which all motors have, if you are running 2 valves (1 intake and 1 exhaust) and they aren't canted much you can only go to roughly 2.1" on the intake and 1.7" on the exhaust with a 4" bore. On the Ford design you can run 2- 1.5" intake valves and 2- 1.2" exhaust valves, with a 4" bore. The actual surface area of the Ford intake and exhaust valves is substantially higher vs the Chevy valves.

What does this mean?

In a nutshell, it means at any given valve lift, the Ford has the ability to pack more air and fuel into the cylinder if the cylinder were the same size as the Chevy. In this particular case Ford went with a smaller cylinder and smaller displacement (5.0), but it is actually cramming about the same amount of air/fuel into it as the Chevy (6.2)motor.

There are other factors at play here such as the intake manifold efficiency, the intake runner design which doesn't have to concern intself with pushrods getting in the way, and friction losses due to pushrods and rocker arms, but the big difference is the number of valves per cylinder.

True. Variable timing/lift also increases efficiency. Being able to effectively change cam profiles and lift to change airflow characteristics at different rpm's is awesome

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Somehwere in this discussion is the often overlooked fact that these valves have stems which subtract from the overall area of the valve opening, but for some reason nobody ever mentions it. Perhaps because it narrows the gap?

I'd be willing to bet the volume of the intake ports in the 4v is quite a bit larger than (5.0/6.2) the volume of the intake ports on the ls3. I wouldn't be surprised the if valvestems on the ls3 are thicker than the valvestems on the 5.0 also. I would think increased pressure under each valve would necessitate a thicker base, but that's just some logical reasoning, I'm not sure. I have never really thought about it or noticed.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

...And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.

By the way, wouldn't those drag radials mess up the skidpad/slalom/track tests? Seems like they were testing these as all-around performance cars, bit just straight line drag performers.

I was mainly talking about for the drag test but no not all radials will perform worse than regular street tires in other areas.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by HIGHOCTANE

IMO the Chevy Engineers have worked hard to keep the push rod motors in the game...and have done an excellent job.
The 4V motors breathe very well...simple physics...they have an advantage....a 6.2 DOHC 4V engine designed by the GM engineers would be SICK...I reaslly hope they go this route with the Z....it doesn't need a blower or more displacement...4V DOHC JMO

I want Ford to develop their OHC 6.2 in the SVT Raptor to a DOHC 4v that would go in say the GT500.

[fazm]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I missed that video! I never would have seen it had you not pointed it out!

Whoah... that's enlightening... the premiere tuners for each brand submit their big guns for testing and the Camaro annihilates them both. LOL!

i only see 2 tuner cars in that video

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by fazm

i only see 2 tuner cars in that video

I would consider the Super Snake to be a tuner car.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by Super83Z

Funny I don't remember there being a class action lawsuit against Chevy for the L99, but I do remember the one that made Ford recall the 99 Cobra.

As long as we're going back in time a decade (or more) we could also talk about GM's infamous Optispark and the glass-jawed 10-bolt rear ends they saw fit to put in every fourth gen f-body. Of course none of these issues are even remotely relevant in a discussion of what the automakers are making currently.

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I would consider the Super Snake to be a tuner car.

So would I. The GT500 is a Ford in-house car, the Super Snake is a Shelby produced car, gone nuts.

Also, the Challenger, for whatever reason, actually only had the 6.1L Hemi. They were supposed to put a different engine in it, but for some reason it only had a standard SRT motor.

[Sax1031]

The best you can get from Ford with a Ford warranty is their 605hp package. Which is highly underrated.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

So would I. The GT500 is a Ford in-house car, the Super Snake is a Shelby produced car, gone nuts.

Also, the Challenger, for whatever reason, actually only had the 6.1L Hemi. They were supposed to put a different engine in it, but for some reason it only had a standard SRT motor.

It was still blown.

[SwiftCat]

Originally Posted by Dboy23

Nuff said.

Freaking classic......like you said, nuff said

[Super83Z]

Originally Posted by Unfair

I didn't say the 2011 Mustang ran 12.6 It hasn't happend.

Originally Posted by Craig

As long as we're going back in time a decade (or more) we could also talk about GM's infamous Optispark and the glass-jawed 10-bolt rear ends they saw fit to put in every fourth gen f-body. Of course none of these issues are even remotely relevant in a discussion of what the automakers are making currently.

The two of you are only good at reading like two words in a post, try to read the whole thing in context. Then maybe it will all make sense to you.

[assasinator]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

I'd be willing to bet the volume of the intake ports in the 4v is quite a bit larger than (5.0/6.2) the volume of the intake ports on the ls3. I wouldn't be surprised the if valvestems on the ls3 are thicker than the valvestems on the 5.0 also. I would think increased pressure under each valve would necessitate a thicker base, but that's just some logical reasoning, I'm not sure. I have never really thought about it or noticed.

intake ports on the 5.0l coyote are 195cc. far smaller than ls-3 heads. the coyote makes similar power from superior flowing heads, more advanced chambers(penatroof>inline 2v), and higher rpm. cams are .475 lift. duration is unknown as of now.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by bwnunnally

I wonder since Ford made headers standard on the 5L V8 if one should compare the LS3 with headers to the 5L with headers for an apples to apples hp comparison of the engines?

Oh no, not this again..... Stock is stock, you add AFTERMARKET headers to the Camaro it is no longer stock.....