Open Letter from Al Oppenhieser to the Camaro Nation and Ford.

[GTAHVIT]

Just so everyone knows...

12) Camaro vs. — Please keep in mind that this is a Camaro forum. We like talking about cars in context of the Camaro. We respect a great number of diverse vehicles here, but what ultimately brings us together is the Camaro. If you are not here to discuss the Camaro in a respectful and polite manner, please refrain from posting.

Rules can be found here.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/announcement.php?f=2

[Jamie Mac]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

Just so everyone knows...



Rules can be found here.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/announcement.php?f=2

Yes, however Scott has stated on here multiple times about how GM listens to the enthusiast/consumer. The post right above yours is a fine example. If we get into the practice of only allowing favorable comments about the Camaro then the only thing this site will be good for is preaching to the choir. That's a waste of time but the worst part of it is if there are only positive comments allowed then there is obviously no appearance of anything needing improvement. That would be a great disservice to us all. I agree that people need to be reasonably polite but that does not mean we all should have to agree with Scott and Al at all times.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Jamie Mac

Yes, however Scott has stated on here multiple times about how GM listens to the enthusiast/consumer. The post right above yours is a fine example. If we get into the practice of only allowing favorable comments about the Camaro then the only thing this site will be good for is preaching to the choir. That's a waste of time but the worst part of it is if there are only positive comments allowed then there is obviously no appearance of anything needing improvement. That would be a great disservice to us all. I agree that people need to be reasonably polite but that does not mean we all should have to agree with Scott and Al at all times.

Did I ever say any thing to the contrary?

We expect debate, but we expect objectivity. If someone is here to pick a fight.. this is not the site for them.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by armysig

I don't think there really isn't a need to keep upgrading so soon. The cost to keep modifying the car and then pay for everything, would just be passed along to us the consumer. GM is trying it's best to stay competative in the market and keep a good selling car affordable. They did just upgrade the V6 engine, and that's the flag ship of the Camaro not the SS. Sales will back that statement up.

And Yes GM has comeback and introduced a new Camaro model, more HP, better suspension, beefer drivetrain, breaks and a few cosmetic upgrades.

GM has answered the call, and people are responding, good or bad.

And don't be surprised if we see a car called the Z28 make it's come back in the next year.

I've gotta guess that the Camaro is very much in the black now.

[2ndCamaro79]

I love GM (u can look at my prior posts) but to get better you have to be your own worst critic. One good example of this is the New England Patriots. When they win their coach comes out and talks about what they did wrong and how they can do better. Michael Jackson said he NEVER had a good performance. Deep inside they both know their good, but they always want to get better. I don't think anybody will cancel their ZL1 order over the Shelby? I think some people may wait and see how everything plays out at best. I can totally understand people wanting the most for their money and wanting their car company to be the best. That does not mean going overboard or just saying something to get a someone going.

All of that being said these are the things I wish Chevy did a little different with the ZL1.

1. Focused more on straight line numbers!
2. Had more pictures and reviews out before the start of ordering!
3. Offered more retro colors!
4. Did not use a supercharger (used the 427 or 454)
5. Had a different name this ZL1 is very different than the true COPO ZL1.

That being said this is a great car and if things fall into place I will order one or a true COPO car from www.1000horses.com. I bleed GM and would not order a Mustang even if it had a million HP, but the rivalry is GREAT!

[htron50]

^^^ Didnt you just start a thread with the same exact verbage? See my comments there!
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183181

[2ndCamaro79]

Originally Posted by htron50

^^^ Didnt you just start a thread with the same exact verbage? See my comments there!
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183181

Yeah, thought I might bet more input as its own thread. Maybe GM would see it a pick up some ideas? I know a lot of you guys wanted to see the ZL1, back on the shifter, or more colors. I know I had a couple of big things, but small things GM might pick up tweak?

[htron50]

Well, lets see it out the door and track tested before we judge it! You know they may not have disclosed everything yet. For instance, we've seen some pics that the motor compartment is being adjusted cosmetically... so lets just give GM a fair chance before we all go redesigning it for them.. what ya say?

[2ndCamaro79]

Alright they get 10 more mins then I am heading up to Canada to fix it.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by Jamie Mac

Yes, however Scott has stated on here multiple times about how GM listens to the enthusiast/consumer. The post right above yours is a fine example. If we get into the practice of only allowing favorable comments about the Camaro then the only thing this site will be good for is preaching to the choir. That's a waste of time but the worst part of it is if there are only positive comments allowed then there is obviously no appearance of anything needing improvement. That would be a great disservice to us all. I agree that people need to be reasonably polite but that does not mean we all should have to agree with Scott and Al at all times.

Strictly general commentary here. I think any rational, level headed performance car enthusiast, no matter which board he signs onto, would agree with your statement 100%. However, there are some qualifiers in there that don't match the personality profile of some posters here even the slightest bit. Therefore, oxygen and oil combine with volatile results. When the rhetoric heats up to the biased critical mass point with brand loyal opponents posting on foreign boards in a confrontational manner, then " Houston, we have a problem". I can say with certainty it won't withstand the test of time here.

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

Did I ever say any thing to the contrary?

We expect debate, but we expect objectivity. If someone is here to pick a fight.. this is not the site for them.

Agreed, and I quote that as truth.

[htron50]

Originally Posted by 2ndCamaro79

Alright they get 10 more mins then I am heading up to Canada to fix it.

HAHA.... Love the response! Kudos...

Get them to sign your shock tower while you're there!
And see if you can get them to make the rear windows roll down.

[Z4me]

Wow tough crowd on this thread! Look I could come up
with a half dozen things I would loved to see implemented
on the ZL1. Is it plausible that I can expect this to happen?
Absolutely not, simple because it's my perceived opinions
of what will make this car what I want it to be. But it's
not going to be marketable to the masses because the
MSRP would jump like 10k more maybe 15k more even!

But just for fun here's a few I would like.

LS9 engine
Forged intervals
ABM color
Under 4,000 lbs caused by more carbon fiber parts
Stronger rear to support the 700hp I want stock
Cleaner looking engine compartment with more finished
looking parts.

Ok the price for MSRP will mostly be 75k or more.

Can I live with out these wishes absolutely, because
the ZL1 has to appeal to a large group of potential
buyers, and not to a select few.
Pure economics of supply and demand here!
While i'm at it thank you for bringing the ZL1 from
a wishful dream, into a reality for some.

[Darkflow]

Lets just wait till the cars hit the streets and find out which is better, stock for stock with average joes behind the wheels. I would rather see those times from various videos/local ppl & etc. then the magazine times that dont give you all the info about the track run and may be biased to 1 company over the other.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by bada

Let me make it a little clearer. $55,000 is to much in my opinion, for a camaro. Which will probably be over $60,000 with all the taxes & fees added on. It weights over 4000 lbs. that's a pig. And the Corvette is not the car, that was built to go head to head, with the GT500. The Camaro was. The Corvette is in a league all its own. I am at the dragstrip just about every week. And in 90% of the camaro VS mustang head to head races. The Mustang usually wins, sorry thats just the facts. There again, I am a chevy person & I love the way the Camaro looks. Just not, the weight, performance, & now the price, sorry! Thats my view it.

You are certainly allowed your opinion.

What I would submit to you is that the world has changed. We live in a society that insists on rules and regulations. CAFE and Emissions standards along with safety standards are making it harder to offer inexpensive high performance as we saw in the 60s and very early 70s. You'd better brace yourself - because CAFE combined with the Law of Supply and Demand is surely going to price V8 engines higher and higher.

You don't like that and WE don't like that - but that doesn't matter to our elected officials in Washington.

I would beseech you to hold your judgement about the ZL1 until you have the opportunity to drive one or ride in one or witness firsthand what its capabilities are. It isn't your 'traditional' Camaro. While there are those (very few) that want crank windows and no air conditioning and the lightest possible car - there are many more who want a blindingly fast car - but that also offers a great ride - comfortable seats (for driving cross-country to the next Camaro5Fest ) -- with a level of refinement. Oh yes - and they want a 10,000 watt stereo that makes your ears bleed..........

As a manufacturer, we must look at the larger picture.....

(keep in mind that we're never finished - remember when we thought the LT1 was the cat's jammies???)

On a "personal" level - May I ask you to please stop with the "Pig" remarks. I promise not to call anyone in your family a "Pig" if you promise to stop calling my 'kids' Pigs...... K?

along those lines... this isn't 1969. We just announced that the Camaro gets a 5-star crash rating in every category. Every category. That isn't easy to engineer. That's also one of the reasons why the car weighs more than we'd like. Further, we - not you - have to hit those CAFE targets - so please understand that we are not being careless with the weight.

It's hard to promise that you'll "listen to the customer" knowing that no matter what you do - there will always be someone complaining about price or weight or *insert panic du jour here*...... The Camaro team does more to talk with its customers than any car or truck team out there....bar none..... That's a promise and a guarantee. And don't take my word for it - ask one of our Camaro Disciples.

If you happened to be around in January thru August of 2006, you may recall that there was great concern that GM would NOT build a Camaro that looked like the Camaro concept that we unveiled on January 9th of 2006. I personally talked to tens of thousands of people during those months - and ONE message came thru loud and clear: "BUILD IT AND IT HAD BETTER LOOK JUST LIKE THIS SILVER CONCEPT THAT I'M LOOKING AT!"

..........and so we did. Now - to "lose weight" - I'd love to hear your thoughts on how we do that. - I'd like indepth engineering analysis on how you would reduce the weight while keeping the larger picture in mind (so that we remain the top seller in the segment)

Should we cut it down to 90 percent of the current size? That doesn't work unless everyone who wants to drive it is 5 feet tall or less.

Make it out of aluminum and exotic materials? -- well -- you already told me that we priced the car too high.

change the style? Well - if we did, then some might accuse us of not listening to the customer.

Look - I don't mean to bash you - but before you bash us - please consider that there are many other opinions about this car that may be 180 degrees from where you view it.......

The team has been working 7 days a week since the early part of the new century........no, I'm not kidding. When we aren't working on the cars, we're out there talking to YOU - the enthusiast.

If I sound a bit 'cranky' -- it's probably because I am - look at some of the posts on here.

Now - tomorrow morning I'm going to walk into a convention center in Illinois with the ZL1 - and I'm going to once again listen to the voice of the customer - and I (and the team) will try to deliver a car that far exceeds the expectations of our enthusiasts - while also 'reaching' for those who many not have considered a Camaro in the past -- and we will have to make some hard, fast decisions.

Lastly - the Corvette may be in a league of its own - but it's still a Chevrolet and we still have Mustang owners who trade their pony in on a Corvette - so yes, we need to consider that -

Sorry if I sound like a crotchety old man - but the reality is that I've been talking to as many Camaro and Firebird and Mustang owners as humanly possible since the early 90s -- and sometimes my skin gets a bit thin when it's implied that we aren't listening.

Forgive me. Everything you see on this site that I post is MY OPINION and not necessarily that of the company for which I work. (and I'm sure there will be a few raised eyebrows after this post.............)