Volt potentially mechanically driven

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Its misleading because it leads you to believe that there the engine never drives the wheels, that there is never any mechanical propulsion, that its an electric vehicle. That is what you are led to believe when reading through the GM provided material I quoted and highlighted. Pretty much anyone who knows about the Volt thinks its solely electrically driven, except when the 'range extender' kicks in to generate more electricity. So if thats not true all the time then they've at least been mislead and at worst, lied to.

I have to disagree. The ability to mechanically link to the road in extreme circumstances does not define the vehicle's character. So they've not misled, because it doesn't change anything they've said...it will still drive on nothing but electricity 99.9% of the time.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Would you say this is an accurate (though in-precise) description of the operation of the Volt: Under certain conditions the Volt will drive only on electricity. The rest of the time it will be a combination of electric and mechanical power.

I think this is directed at #3, but I wanted to chip in -- no, I wouldn't say that's accurate.

"The Volt is a totally electrically driven vehicle, with a range extender system on-board for when your grid charge runs down. Under extremely demanding circumstances, the vehicle has the ability to mechanically power the wheels."

I think this is being blown way out of proportion by primarily detractors of the Volt platform begging for some negative clippet to exploit. To date there has been none, so they're jumping on this like ravenous wolves.

Being "lied to" or "misled" imparts some sort of negative connotation of underhanded deception. When there is NONE. This is an added feature to supplement the drawbacks of the Volt's totally electric drivetrain in extreme circumstances. It is not something that will take away from the vehicle and encourage a customer to buy something else "if the truth comes out". It is something that adds to the already stellar resume of abilities the Volt brings to the showroom.

To Edmund's, I say: They've one-upped the Leaf AGAIN. Get over it.

[Number 3]

I'm not arguing. I understand why some people could have one interpretation of this.

I remember asking in a meeting, "how will a customer react if the engine EVER comes on, for example to purge fuel". Guess what, it does.

And don't misinterpret, I don't know all the answers here. It's been several years since I was involved at all with the program. But did anyone think that since this is going to Europe as the Opel Ampera that enabling a certain level of autobahn performance might have led to this?

Here is the deal. GM could set the Volt up to NOT EVER be propelled by the ICE. If I understand things correctly, it would be possible for someone to "tune" this out. LOL couldn't resist that. It is a choice to optimize performance in some rare instances. How rare? I don't know. I guess that depends on where you live.

I understand your thoughts DG, and please don't misinterpret me, I'm not arguing with you or trying to say you are wrong. I'm just offering a perspective.

For me, this would be like the Camaro coming out with 304 HP and then later they said well it's actually 312 HP, and then everyone jumping up and down creating headlines that GM lied. But I'm not hung up on the pure EV bit but I understand why some people might be.

[FenwickHockey65]

It's still the best car in this segment. The Leaf won't use gas at all but will leave you stranded at the end of a 100 mile trip, and remember how fickle EV ranges are. You could think that you have enough battery power for a 100 mile round trip but end up stuck 20 miles from home when outside conditions reduce the total EV range to 80 miles. The Volt doesn't have that problem because the Volt isn't a completely half-assed car, as is the Leaf.

So did GM kinda renege on the whole "Solely powered by electricity thing?" Yeah, sorta. Depends on how you look at it. The Volt will still be powered by electricity 99% of the time. If you need to pass someone on the highway, then the ICE will kick in and help out, which is the more efficient solution than straining the battery/electric motors. Once that's over and done with and you're back to cruising at 70 MPH or below, then you're running on electricity only again.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I have to disagree. The ability to mechanically link to the road in extreme circumstances does not define the vehicle's character. So they've not misled, because it doesn't change anything they've said...it will still drive on nothing but electricity 99.9% of the time.

The ability negates the justification for calling it an electric vehicle. The Volt started out being described as a hybrid. Its setup, regardless of whether the wheels could be driven mechanically, is a hybrid setup. With this new info, it is definitely a hybrid. And I'm fine with that because its a kick-ass (or should I say ... kick-teeth) hybrid.

As for it not changing what they've said ... let me ask you this: based on everything that GM has said about the Volt up until a week ago, did you honestly think that the engine would power the wheels of the Volt under any conditions?

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I think this is directed at #3, but I wanted to chip in -- no, I wouldn't say that's accurate.

"The Volt is a totally electrically driven vehicle, with a range extender system on-board for when your grid charge runs down. Under extremely demanding circumstances, the vehicle has the ability to mechanically power the wheels."

The two contradict each other. If it was 'totally electrically driven' the internal combustion engine would never power the wheels, thats what I take from the use of the word 'totally'. Usually electrically driven? Sure. At least partially electrically driven all the time? Absolutely. Totally electrically driven? No.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I think this is being blown way out of proportion by primarily detractors of the Volt platform begging for some negative clippet to exploit. To date there has been none, so they're jumping on this like ravenous wolves.

Being "lied to" or "misled" imparts some sort of negative connotation of underhanded deception. When there is NONE. This is an added feature to supplement the drawbacks of the Volt's totally electric drivetrain in extreme circumstances. It is not something that will take away from the vehicle and encourage a customer to buy something else "if the truth comes out". It is something that adds to the already stellar resume of abilities the Volt brings to the showroom.

To Edmund's, I say: They've one-upped the Leaf AGAIN. Get over it.

I hope you don't consider me a detractor of the Volt. I've supported it any chance I get. And I would still consider buying one (used) if I can't get a Camaro.

If you say something that you know isn't true, you're lying. They called the Volt an electric vehicle. Initially, it was conceived to be a series hybrid. Turns out, they've added a parallel hybrid capability to that. But either way, its a hybrid and not a electric vehicle.

Now, if you say something essentially true with the intent to make your audience think something other than the whole truth, you are being misleading (or equivocating). Saying things like "electricity powers the Volt at all speeds" is essentially true. That statement leads anyone who reads think that electricity is the only thing that powers the wheels. It doesn't lead you to think 'and some of the time the engine will also power them too, right?'. So their statements were mis-leading people.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

I'm outraged by the lack of journalistic ethic in that article. I haven't seen such biased so-called journalism outside of a communist country since propaganda films from WWII.

Are you kidding? Don't you watch the news these days? Depending on what channel you watch determines who's side they're on.


If the kind of people that buy this are like Prius drivers then many will go over 70.

I don't really know why is matters what they call it. It always had a gas motor with electric motors. No matter how you slice it it was never a fully electric vehicle. I would hope that people that plan on spending $40,000 for this car will do their homework before buying.

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Are you kidding? Don't you watch the news these days? Depending on what channel you watch determines who's side they're on.


If the kind of people that buy this are like Prius drivers then many will go over 70.

I don't really know why is matters what they call it. It always had a gas motor with electric motors. No matter how you slice it it was never a fully electric vehicle. I would hope that people that plan on spending $40,000 for this car will do their homework before buying.

I think the point of news is to remain neutral. That's probably what he's getting at.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I have to disagree. The ability to mechanically link to the road in extreme circumstances does not define the vehicle's character. So they've not misled, because it doesn't change anything they've said...it will still drive on nothing but electricity 99.9% of the time.

99.9% of the time is not 100% of the time (and I would argue that it is going to be more like 90% if you actually drive the thing for any distance, especially in mountainous parts of the country), and the criteria for an electric vehicle is 100% of the time. Think of it this way, some 'hybrids' are vastly ICE driven vehicles which the electric motor 'helps' on occasion to increase efficiency.

We still call those vehicles hybrids because they have the capability to be driven by both drivetrains. If it isn't 100% electric then it isn't electric, it's a hybrid. And even though I think the Cruze is arguably much better of the way it is what is better isn't really the argument here, the argument is that GM was not 100% honest about the car and, to be blunt, I don't really understand why.

The irony here is that, if GM really wanted an undeniably 'electric' vehicle, GM could have simply engineered in this car a feature where the gas drive-line actually powers the vehicle as an emergency measure only which the driver would have to physically activate by pushing a button or twist a knob to bring into effect. Such a car would arguably be a real electric vehicle with an emergency, gas powered limp home mode.

But, given the fact that the gas engine can and will kick in without any input from the driver there just isn't any way around it...this is a hybrid. Personally I don't find electric vehicles remotely viable anyway and I don't care for any manufacturers hybrid or electric vehicle programs without exception. That said, I think GM probably cost themselves more than a little in terms of the marketing goodwill this car was obviously designed to bring to the table and not for a very good reason.

[FenwickHockey65]

GM just released a statement...

DETROIT – As GM has started the media launch program for the Chevrolet Volt, some confusion has emerged about details of the Volt’s drive technology.

The engineering of the Voltec electric drive unit is very sophisticated. As part of the media launch, we're diving deeper into how the system works than we have in the past. We did not share all the details until now because the information was competitive and we awaited patent approvals. Following a small number of inaccurate media reports, we want to clarify a few points.

The Volt has an innovative electric drive system that can deliver power in both pure electric and extended range driving. The Voltec electric drive cannot operate without power from the electric motors. If the traction motor is disabled, the range-extending internal combustion engine cannot drive the vehicle by itself.

There is no direct mechanical connection (fixed gear ratio) between the Volt’s extended-range 1.4L engine and the drive wheels. In extended-range driving, the engine generates power that is fed through the drive unit and is balanced by the generator and traction motor. The resulting power flow provides a 10 to 15 percent improvement in highway fuel economy.

Our overriding objective in developing the Voltec electric drive was to deliver the most efficient, yet fun-to-drive experience in both pure electric and extended-range driving. We think our unique technology lives up to its most important promise: delivering our customers with the only EV that can be their primary vehicle, with EV operation for normal daily driving, and extended range driving for weekends, holidays, and longer trips – all with no range anxiety.

So I guess there is no mechanical linkage?

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

GM just released a statement...

So I guess there is no mechanical linkage?

That's good enough for me. It sounds like a diesel electric train kind of.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

GM just released a statement...

So I guess there is no mechanical linkage?

Originally Posted by motorhead

That's good enough for me. It sounds like a diesel electric train kind of.

What do they mean when they say the power through the drivetrain is "balanced" by the generator and motor?

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

What do they mean when they say the power through the drivetrain is "balanced" by the generator and motor?

My interpretation:

During times that more performance is required, the ICE will kick on to generate electricity for the electric motors regardless of battery levels. So if you go to pass on the highway, even running on EV mode, and accelerate to 75 MPH, the ICE will begin generating electricity until you drop back to 70 MPH.

EDIT: Another interpretation that was just explained to me is that the ICE generates electricity for a second electric motor linked to the drive wheels when needed in charge-sustaining extended-range mode.

[cab2g]

Honestly... who cares... as long as it is capable of grtting outstanding mileage if it goes over 70mph and if you still can drive in the city without using the combustion engine at all it's still a major technical achievement. I don't care what the acronym police wants to call it.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by syr74

What DG3 said. Whether you love or hate GM they said that the engine was used to recharge the batteries and that as such the Volt is an EV. The car they are now describing is in fact, under certain circumstances, driven directly by the engine itself and that means that this is not an electric vehicle.

Call a spade a spade. This is a really, really stupid way to get a lot of bad press.

No, the engine never recharges the battery, it simply generates electricity to power the motors.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

GM just released a statement...

So I guess there is no mechanical linkage?

So if there isn't a mechanical linkage to the wheels, then it would be classified as an EV, correct? I gotta say though, the GMI thread on this is helpful.