Finally official! 2012 new v6 engine.

[Kmorpheus]

Originally Posted by Dasein

What don't you like about the M6? Just curious since I've only heard good things.

There is an underlying 1 to 2 shifting issue with the V6 Manual trans. Seems like alot of guys grinding, and breaking syncros and clutches. I have only hit this once in doing a high RPM shift but now I feel like I have to baby this thing. And I don't know about out but I did not buy a car with 300 + horsepower to baby it. Check out the other threads that address this issue.

[Dasein]

Originally Posted by Kmorpheus

There is an underlying 1 to 2 shifting issue with the V6 Manual trans. Seems like alot of guys grinding, and breaking syncros and clutches. I have only hit this once in doing a high RPM shift but now I feel like I have to baby this thing. And I don't know about out but I did not buy a car with 300 + horsepower to baby it. Check out the other threads that address this issue.

Will do... never heard of it but I wanna do some research now. I really want a manual, but like you said, I refuse to buy a Camaro if I have to look forward to babying her like I would with cars with half the HP You ever hear a 150 HP car at redline? Honestly sounds like it's gonna fall apart.
Fairly certain I'm thread jacking, though, so my bad
On the original topic, I don't think mods will stop coming out for a while, like others mentioned. The cars are still out there and they will outnumber the '12s for a few years. If anything, the aftermarket will slow down a bit at worst, and eventually come to an end years from now (as all things must). But why does it really matter? Everything we need to increase HP and build a crazy car is already out there

[1o.f00t.570rk]

So this may sound kinda shallow, but the biggest reason I'm not bothered is that they don't offer the SGM color anymore. That and I am perfectly happy with the 312 I have now...more than capable of breaking loose as it is, so more power isn't going to sway me greatly.

After that, the only thing that worries me, and only a little, is that if we keep jumping like this, we'll never see a V6 family that parallels the venerated LS series V8's.

I say that in that a co-worker and I have been toying with the idea of building a Factory Five GTM kit car, but using the LLT instead of an LS1.

Anywho, at the end of the day I love my car, and that's what matters most.

[bhut]

My bet is that the new 3.6 motor borrows most of its architecture from the current LLT. I don't like the new head design though. Integrated exhaust manifold = limited flow. I had a head like this on my 2007 Civic (yes, I drove a Honda) and it is designed for manufacturing ease, not performance potential. There's a reason people prefer long tube headers to block huggers for performance.

I'm betting the improved torque is a factor of larger valves (there is a correlation between total valve area and torque) and the bigger cams in addition to the intake. A composite (read thermoplastic) manifold is probably tuned with longer runners and would have a smoother flowing surface than the current aluminum manifold if posted photos are any indication. These factors probably help offset the integrated exhaust flow losses. Integrated exhaust could be good for plumbing an underhood turbo setup though.

Although it's nice that GM managed to keep the V6 HP wars going, the component changes probably have more to do with manufacturing cost savings and efficiency than any kind of performance-oriented tuning by eager engineers. My hope is that the ECM managed systems remained essentially the same. If GM swaps from the current Bosch computer to something better (more tunable) and the sensors are the same, it could be a plug and play replacement for us.

I'll throw my hat in with those who hope for a better M6, particularly if more power is on tap in 2012. The Aisin AY6 leaves a lot to be desired for power handling in my opinion. I just don't think the synchros can handle this powertrain. I've experienced more grinding in this transmission than I have in used cars with far more mileage and dubious maintenance records, and I've driven manual-trans cars for 15+ years. My bad gear is third - it'll grind with typical driving if I don't force it well. I foresee a trip to the dealer soon. Even my 6 year old keeps asking me about the sound. Toyota Tacoma/TRD owners seem to have similar complaints for this trans. I don't blame GM though - AISIN is owned by Toyota and their recent quality control issues leave me little doubt where the problem may be.

[Sneeks20]

Originally Posted by bhut

My bet is that the new 3.6 motor borrows most of its architecture from the current LLT. I don't like the new head design though. Integrated exhaust manifold = limited flow. I had a head like this on my 2007 Civic (yes, I drove a Honda) and it is designed for manufacturing ease, not performance potential. There's a reason people prefer long tube headers to block huggers for performance.

I'm betting the improved torque is a factor of larger valves (there is a correlation between total valve area and torque) and the bigger cams in addition to the intake. A composite (read thermoplastic) manifold is probably tuned with longer runners and would have a smoother flowing surface than the current aluminum manifold if posted photos are any indication. These factors probably help offset the integrated exhaust flow losses. Integrated exhaust could be good for plumbing an underhood turbo setup though.

Although it's nice that GM managed to keep the V6 HP wars going, the component changes probably have more to do with manufacturing cost savings and efficiency than any kind of performance-oriented tuning by eager engineers. My hope is that the ECM managed systems remained essentially the same. If GM swaps from the current Bosch computer to something better (more tunable) and the sensors are the same, it could be a plug and play replacement for us.

I'll throw my hat in with those who hope for a better M6, particularly if more power is on tap in 2012. The Aisin AY6 leaves a lot to be desired for power handling in my opinion. I just don't think the synchros can handle this powertrain. I've experienced more grinding in this transmission than I have in used cars with far more mileage and dubious maintenance records, and I've driven manual-trans cars for 15+ years. My bad gear is third - it'll grind with typical driving if I don't force it well. I foresee a trip to the dealer soon. Even my 6 year old keeps asking me about the sound. Toyota Tacoma/TRD owners seem to have similar complaints for this trans. I don't blame GM though - AISIN is owned by Toyota and their recent quality control issues leave me little doubt where the problem may be.

Wow, kinda glad i opted for an A6. Well really fiance cant drive stick so if we go out and i have a few drinks of "kool aid" she would need to drive us home.

[Rwarchol]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Yeah, talk to the 2004 GTO guys about that.

Yea but by the time the 04 GTO came out the LS1 was already pushing 6 years of use. Same with the LLT. Just because it only lasted two MY for the Camaro, it's been around in the CTS for a while now.

[KMPrenger]

Didn't want to start a new thread....so I just dug this one up.

Here is a link to a post in the general discussions area...

Originally Posted by R6P

Our LFX V6 powered convertible got dropped off just as I was leaving the shop this afternoon. I hung around just long enough to snap a couple of pictures.

The new cylinder head with integrated exhaust manifold...

Attachment 279499

The new E39 engine control module (not good news for us Bosch controled LLT guys hoping for tuning alternatives)

Attachment 279500

A new 8 wire MAF/Air temp sensor

Attachment 279501

And (sorry for the poor picture) of a new plastic intake plenum

Attachment 279502

I had no idea the new intake manifold was plastic! Man its ugly...but should be lighter and I would also think it would be cheaper than ours....but thats just my assumption.

But if it was an easy way to gain more horses I could just pretty up my engine cover and run that just fine lol.

[SSGUNNER]

Thw 2012 is gonna be a beast.

[BSR-1]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

I had no idea the new intake manifold was plastic! Man its ugly...but should be lighter and I would also think it would be cheaper than ours....but thats just my assumption.

But if it was an easy way to gain more horses I could just pretty up my engine cover and run that just fine lol.

You think it'll bolt onto our LLT?

[SIXJAK]

Was talking to some guy in the grocery market about how the dealerReliable in Springfield MO told him that they're going to start putting the 5.3 E85 in a limited number of RS's He also told me about a new chip IPS just came out with that will add 60hp

[bmorecam]

Originally Posted by SIXJAK

Was talking to some guy in the grocery market about how the dealerReliable in Springfield MO told him that they're going to start putting the 5.3 E85 in a limited number of RS's He also told me about a new chip IPS just came out with that will add 60hp

I remember the good ol chip days but only chip that I ever seen give upwards of 60+ are chips for turbo diesel. I didnt know IPS did chips He must have eat too much sweets in the aisle 6

About the new LFX.. I have to admit, the only thing I am jealous about is the delphi ecm but other than that.. they can keep everything else.

[BaylorCamaro]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

About the new LFX.. I have to admit, the only thing I am jealous about is the delphi ecm but other than that.. they can keep everything else.

[DarkneSS]

The plastic manifold also remains colder than the LlT metal one so it should keep the engine cooler, thus making some more power. On my old 3.0L V6 a plastic manifold alone made ~30 crank horsepower. No Im not exaggerating...

[Mach]

Originally Posted by DarkneSS

The plastic manifold also remains colder than the LlT metal one so it should keep the engine cooler, thus making some more power. On my old 3.0L V6 a plastic manifold alone made ~30 crank horsepower. No Im not exaggerating...

Plus.. Unlike the cast Al, the plastic manifold is much smoother inside. Enhancing airflow.