Gains w/ long tubes after blower

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by grocerygetter

I have this conversation going on elsewhere also...here was one reply to me not from this board:

Headers on a supercharged application will not help. Will. Not. None.

Here's why. The blower scoops in the air and mechanically squishes it and shoves it out. Mechanically it's going to pump the same amount of air regardless of boost pressure, exhaust pressure, whatever. When you uncork the exhaust you simply reduce the pressure the mechanical blower is shoving against. The supercharger doesn't care though. It's mechanically shoving a scoop of air out. That volume/airflow doesn't change. The scoop of ambient air has no idea what's happening downstream. The only, and we're talking minuscule, gain you could ever get is reducing the amount of exhaust in the chamber. That's like a fart in the wind though, so it doesn't really pay off much.
At 500whp are you really going to notice 10-15?

He is Partially Correct about the blower being the dictator.

But I disagree you won't see anything, we have definitley recorded Lower boost and 10 more HP.

You are rewarded with a More Efficient Package no matter the Numbers.

Less Heat build up on the Exhaust Valve.

Less Chance of Detonation

Cooler IAT

And the List goes On.

[owensmat]

I added high flow cats at the time of the headers. They burnt up in a matter of months. Bad tune? Idk, but they didn't last and I ended up punching them out.
Bottom line for me was that I invested a lot of money into the headers, post blower, and it appeared to make little overall difference in power and performance. Maybe some more hp, I can't argue, but it didn't look like much, but like I said, that was a G8. Different car. I am only reinforced here in my thoughts by what the Lingenfelter guy said to me directly, which was that headers on the Camaro wouldn't make a big difference, other than sound on a Camaro. I'm no pro, but gotta think he is, given Lingenfelter's rep and the guy didn't mix words about it.

Originally Posted by mikeSS

so what were you running before the headers. that would be nuts to run stock cats on a FI setup.

[WheelmanSS]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

He is Partially Correct about the blower being the dictator.

But I disagree you won't see anything, we have definitley recorded Lower boost and 10 more HP.

You are rewarded with a More Efficient Package no matter the Numbers.

Less Heat build up on the Exhaust Valve.

Less Chance of Detonation

Cooler IAT

And the List goes On.

Yup.

If you are looking for power, you won't see a "noticeable" increase. However, what you gain in efficiency is well worth it.

Again, adding headers is a no brainer.

If you are just chasing a horsepower per dollar number, then go ahead and skip the headers to save a few bucks. Again, not sure why you would.

[grocerygetter]

Waiting for some dynos or time slips.

[caverman]

Originally Posted by grocerygetter

Waiting for some dynos or time slips.

I would think you might be waiting a while for dyno sheets. Mostly because my guess is that most people that do FI already have or add LTs to the mix. Not many people run FI without LTs from what I've seen and read.

To me....you've spent all that money on a super charger you might as well spend the $500 more it takes to add some TSP or OBX brand of header. Even at 10 rwhp it's not easy to find power and efficency for that little.

If you watch the For Sale section you can might even get some cheaper. I saw some Dynatec sell for around $400 not long ago. I would've snatched them in a heartbeat had I not already had headers.

[AngelSpeedFreak]

Originally Posted by grocerygetter

Waiting for some dynos or time slips.

I am exactly where you are at now... My first mod was exhaust (for sound) then I threw a maggie on. I am still on my stock headers and I just have not been convinced that headers will gain me enough to justify the price.

These are my dyno numbers on my stock headers:
550rwhp and 536tq @5.5psi
579rwhpand 573tq @7psi
608rwhp and 591tq @8.5psi

my thought (as I m with you looking for proof) is that if I add LT headers for around $800 (mid-priced set) that I might gain 10hp and lower my PSI by 1psi or so. so will I notice 10hp? heck no... can I pulley down more, maybe? I am already getting a lot of belt slip on my 3.2 pulley so I think if I needed to go down again it would just get worse.

I would love to see some real world numbers (dyno or track) exactly as the OP is asking for...

[realcanuk]

When I added 1 7/8 ARH headers and cats to my eforce car I gained exactly 10 HP and 35 lbs of torque. A gain you can notice while driving. Its an LS2 but should be similar.

[grocerygetter]

Did you change the pulley on the vette or just bolt them on and go?
Physics makes me wonder if pd acts different than centrifugal as well. I don't think a centri would see the torque gain.

[realcanuk]

Originally Posted by grocerygetter

Did you change the pulley on the vette or just bolt them on and go?
Physics makes me wonder if pd acts different than centrifugal as well. I don't think a centri would see the torque gain.

Didnt change the pulley. Headers and some tuning. I lost a little boost but as expected gained most back when I added meth after. I dont want a lot of boost. Rather enjoy my car this summer than visit it at the shop.

[grocerygetter]

Thanks.

[grocerygetter]

I'm pretty darn sure I cant pulley down without adding a BAP or changing the fuel pump. Vortech uses bigger injectors and the tune is rock solid without BAP. I've logged fuel pressure out the back door up into fourth pretty far. She's fine.

in the turbo Buick community the kb BAP is blasphemy. Lol

[Cpanthers85]

It shouldn't matter how much boost you are running, just that your overall set up is at the HP and TQ level that you want and that it is EFFECIENT WITH A GOOD TUNE.

I can't provide numbers, but when you finally take the stock exhaust manifolds off and see how restrictive they are, you will understand why people put headers on these engines regardless if you are blown or not.

If you can't justify the 10HP, then save up so you can do it right, pulley down, and upgrade your fuel system.

[grocerygetter]

this is my second camaro...I did long tubes on the other. I've seen it.
This isn't about me needing to save money...this is about applying money properly.

[mgoodbar]

Originally Posted by grocerygetter

I have this conversation going on elsewhere also...here was one reply to me not from this board:

Headers on a supercharged application will not help. Will. Not. None.

Here's why. The blower scoops in the air and mechanically squishes it and shoves it out. Mechanically it's going to pump the same amount of air regardless of boost pressure, exhaust pressure, whatever. When you uncork the exhaust you simply reduce the pressure the mechanical blower is shoving against. The supercharger doesn't care though. It's mechanically shoving a scoop of air out. That volume/airflow doesn't change. The scoop of ambient air has no idea what's happening downstream. The only, and we're talking minuscule, gain you could ever get is reducing the amount of exhaust in the chamber. That's like a fart in the wind though, so it doesn't really pay off much.
At 500whp are you really going to notice 10-15?

Let me see if I can help you guys out a bit here. Been in maintenance and school for it for 16 years. Needles to say I have worked on a lot of differant screw and lob compressors.

That being said, check this out. Ok, so we have a engine with manifold's and 10 psi of boost. Lets just say it takes 100 hp away from the engine to spin the compressor, and It produces 500hp This is do to to all kinds of things. intake, intercooler, the compressor its self the manifolds and our, pluged up four cat exhaust, valves, cam and so on. Ok, so if we take this same enging and improve on anyone of the restrictions that cost 100 hp we make it more effeciant . SO, looking at it this way we can see how to make it easier to spin that blower, and giving HP back to the tires. so we add some headers and no cats. we have removed, back pressure now from the compressor. That loss in back pressure means the blower spins easier and gives us the 10hp that was already there. Since the blower does not have to work so hard to push through, we give up some of the heat caused by the resistance in the exhaust. Our boost gage now reads 9psi and our air intake temps are much lower. We will also pick up power of of the 9psi. If we were getting 15hp per pound of boost, we might now be getting 18 hp per pound. So, if we want to, we can swap a pully out and get our 10 psi back. As a added bonus to the, now more effeciant system, that simple 1psi of boost added back can make much more power than it use to. 18 instead of 15. If we look at it this way, we can see were we recieved 10 hp to the wheels that we already had + since we gained 3 hp per pound of boost, we get 27 Free HP. and another 18 if we swap a pully out.... for a total of 55 hp to the wheels. Of cours the drive line will eat its share of this new found 55 hp leaving us with 38 to the wheels or what ever....... Hope this helps, and sorry for running on. trying to stay awake at work. Owww all these numbers are just thrown out there as a example and not to be taken seriously. There is a HP vs PSI of boost chart some were on google. it kinda explains how say the 1st pound of boost X cubic in engine at X hp recieves = say 21hp the next PSI of boost will not be as efficent as the first psi so it will give 20hp and the 19 at 3psi and so on.... due the reasons stated above. This is also why a turbo will make so much more hp to the wheels. The compressed car makes the same, but cant put it down, due to the parisidic loss of the compressor........................