Finally Some Positive CAFE opinions

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Emu the Foo

what does CAFE mean or is it like the gas guzzler tax.

Originally Posted by radz282003

I believe the short version is something like all auto manufacturers will have to attain a certain average MPG for their carline or be penalized somehow.

pretty much.

CAFE = Corporate Average Fuel Economy
An Auto manufacturer must produce cars that abide by these guidelines, (35mpg in 2020, gradual increase from now to then.) And if they don't, they must pay a fine to the gov't. The trick is, that the whole fleet must meet 35mpg, not the individual cars. People mix that part up all the time.

The thing that GM's got going for them, is E85, and the Volt.
There is a loophole in the current law, that is likely to carry over to the new law that offers..."protection"...from the law for vehicles that can run off of E85. It gives an E85 vehicle soemthing like a 45mpg rating, instead of it's normal lower rating. Sooooo, GM's has millions of vehicles on the road that can run E85 - that helps.

Then GM/Chevy is working on the Volt. Here's a real basic idea of how it will help. Let's pretend that GM ovly sells SUV's: What's (15mpg +20 mpg +18mpg)/3?
17.6mpg. (<) That would be the CAFE rating for GM.

Now pretend GM produces the Volt in addition to these 3 SUVs.
(15+20+18+55)/4 =
27mpg!! (<) That would be the CAFE rating AFTER GM produces the Volt.


Now, obviously the General produces more than just SUV's, and they make more than 3 cars. But you see the radical difference that one car like the Volt can make!

BIG issue with the new CAFE? The rules haven't been written, yet. All we know is 35mpg in 2020...and almost nothing else.

Of course...you didn't ask any of this. But I thought it was a nice little bit of information.

[Kyle2k]

So is this why every fun car has been put on hold? If the rules are more lax up to the 35mpg goal does that mean GM will reactivate these or what?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

So is this why every fun car has been put on hold? If the rules are more lax up to the 35mpg goal does that mean GM will reactivate these or what?

That's why they're waiting to hear what the rules will be. There's NO sense in pushing out all these RWD vehicles (and there were a lot coming down the pipe) just to be caught with your pants down when the gov't says "oops, can't do that!"

[DGthe3]

I believe its also a weighted average. So selling 20k 'SS' Camaros with an average mileage rating of 22 mpg, and 100k 'RS' Camaros, rated at an average 26 mpg will be more than offset by 100k Volts rated at say 75 mpg minimum, after the E85 allowance and the electric drive (however that figures in). You could lump in every low mileage performance car and the CAFE would still be above with the Volt. I think that there are exceptions for trucks and SUV's, or at least a double standard.

It shouldn't be too hard to improve mileage by ~10% solely by reducing weight. I imagine that technologies like AFM and direct injection would work better with lighter and more aerodynamic body, that would end up in a boost of about 3 mpg for most passenger cars. That increase in economy comes at a minimum increase in cost. Another idea that is a reasonably inexpensive way to a better fuel rating, besides E85, is diesel. new diesels are cleaner than in the past, much cleaner. And they still provide better mileage than hybrids. Its a matter of public perception. So I don't think that the raise in CAFE means that the cars that we love will all die.

[Emu the Foo]

YAY so this means i get my 400+ horses i hope.

[fastball]

When did they bring out the gas guzzler tax to begin with? Because, up untill the 1980's, pretty much EVERY car America made averaged alot less than 20 mpg.

[Kyle2k]

I don't know, I kind of support the whole CAFE thing (flame suit on), but not for the reasons most people might think. I think it is good because it challenges American engineers to stay on top (even if you think they are already there) in all regards. It forces them to better use all the materiels and knowledge that they have. Otherwise, I find it just as rotting talent...

[Emu the Foo]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

I don't know, I kind of support the whole CAFE thing (flame suit on), but not for the reasons most people might think. I think it is good because it challenges American engineers to stay on top (even if you think they are already there) in all regards. It forces them to better use all the materiels and knowledge that they have. Otherwise, I find it just as rotting talent...

i am right behind you. plus WE SAVE MONEY ON GAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Emu the Foo

i am right behind you. plus WE SAVE MONEY ON GAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah, or we can drive more but not pay more

[Grape Ape]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

The thing that GM's got going for them, is E85, and the Volt.
There is a loophole in the current law, that is likely to carry over to the new law that offers..."protection"...from the law for vehicles that can run off of E85. It gives an E85 vehicle soemthing like a 45mpg rating, instead of it's normal lower rating. Sooooo, GM's has millions of vehicles on the road that can run E85 - that helps.

The way I understand it is that when calculating CAFE the cars that can burn E85 are assumed to burn E85 some portion of the time (1/4? 1/3?) and only the petrolium derived 15% of the E85 counts.

So if I had an SUV that gets 20mpg and can burn E85, then it technically gets 133 miles per gallon of gasoline when it burns E85 and the SUV's mileage for CAFE is somewhere between 20 & 133.