The truth about Shorty Headers - Page 3 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

SK360 · 08-25-2009, 11:14 AM

My Jethot Coated mild steel longtubes have peeled under the car as well and have nice rust spots...

Should have bought Kooks for but $600 with midpipes it was worth it

I still say go longtubes if you are going through the trouble to install fancy manifolds (Shorties).

allblackedout · 08-25-2009, 05:36 PM

i understand that the longtubes are better and why but my question is if you put on a set of diverters with shorties do you think that you would get similar results as with a set of longtubes

HaveBlue · 08-25-2009, 07:01 PM

Maybe this will help. In short you can't maximize the tube length and collector design on shorties because you have a finite amount of space to work within. Even long tubes on a car can be a compromise because of fitment. Shorties will be better than stock exhaust.

HOW HEADERS WORK
Headers are much more than just suitably sized exhaust pipes attached to your engine. Headers are an integral part of your engine. The significant energy remaining in the exhaust gas in the cylinder after the power stroke can be used to increase engine power and efficiency by:
Minimizing the contamination of the intake charge with exhaust gases.
Starting the flow of induction during the valve overlap period.
Minimizing pumping losses on the exhaust stroke.

The header performs its function by:
Utilizing the compression wave that is created when exhaust pressure in the cylinder is blown down after the exhaust valve opens. This compression wave travels through the exhaust gas remaining in the primary header pipe, and accelerates the exhaust gas toward the collector.
Passing this strong compression wave through an expansion chamber (collector) located at the end of the primary header pipe. This produces a strong suction wave. This suction wave travels back up the header pipe toward the open exhaust valve, accelerating the fresh exhaust gas in the pipe toward the collector.
Timing this reflected suction wave (scavenging wave) to arrive back at the exhaust valve during the valve overlap period, when both the exhaust and intake valves are off their seats.

For the header to function properly it must have the following characteristics:
Primary header pipes must be small enough to maintain the strength of the compression waves and suction waves in the pipes.
Primary header pipes must be large enough to allow optimal flow of gases past the exhaust valve, and down the header pipes.
Primary header pipes must be of proper length to ensure correct arrival time of the scavenging wave that will be reflected back to the exhaust valve.
Collector must be of proper diameter and length to provide the correct duration and intensity of the scavenging wave.
Primary header pipes and collectors must produce a scavenging wave that is present at the exhaust valve during the valve overlap period over an established operating RPM range for the engine.

SS 376 · 08-25-2009, 07:20 PM

We should do a shorty header shoot-out between JBA, Doug Thorley and Kooks(?)

HaveBlue · 08-25-2009, 07:52 PM

Edelbrock will have a shorty set too.

somewhatdamaged · 02-20-2010, 02:44 AM

I've had both long tubes, and shorties on different cars:
longs on my C5 Z06 and shorties on my GTO. I think it depends a lot on how far with the power mods you plan/are willing to go: If you just want a little power and don't plan on a cam, forced induction etc...you really don't need the long tubes IMO.

In CA, long tubes are just too much hassle, and while you get a nice power bump, it's not worth the aggravation for me. For one, I'm really sensitive to drone, and unless your willing to stick to stock mufflers or spend a grand on some shiny pipes that idle like a motor boat

you're probably gonna have some drone. You also end up spending more than you thought on install, tuning etc..unless you can do the long tubes yourself. As this car is similar in size and has a similar exhaust to the GTO, maybe drone will not be an issue, I haven't been in a Camaro with long tubes. I'm just not willing to take the risk or hassle of changing out the mufflers/sound deadening etc to try and rid the cabin of unwanted noise. Basically, I'm over it, no long tubes for my forthcoming Camaro.

The shorties I had were JBA stainless and I saved by installing them myself as they are much easier. I doubt I gained more than 10 hp or so, but did improve the butt dyno and sound a nice bit. I seriously doubt there will be any power differences between the various companies shorties, I would just go with the best price.

08-25-2009, 07:01 PM	#31
HaveBlue Drives: CTS/CAMARO Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: SEMA/PERF INDUSTRY GUY Posts: 488	Maybe this will help. In short you can't maximize the tube length and collector design on shorties because you have a finite amount of space to work within. Even long tubes on a car can be a compromise because of fitment. Shorties will be better than stock exhaust. HOW HEADERS WORK Headers are much more than just suitably sized exhaust pipes attached to your engine. Headers are an integral part of your engine. The significant energy remaining in the exhaust gas in the cylinder after the power stroke can be used to increase engine power and efficiency by: Minimizing the contamination of the intake charge with exhaust gases. Starting the flow of induction during the valve overlap period. Minimizing pumping losses on the exhaust stroke. The header performs its function by: Utilizing the compression wave that is created when exhaust pressure in the cylinder is blown down after the exhaust valve opens. This compression wave travels through the exhaust gas remaining in the primary header pipe, and accelerates the exhaust gas toward the collector. Passing this strong compression wave through an expansion chamber (collector) located at the end of the primary header pipe. This produces a strong suction wave. This suction wave travels back up the header pipe toward the open exhaust valve, accelerating the fresh exhaust gas in the pipe toward the collector. Timing this reflected suction wave (scavenging wave) to arrive back at the exhaust valve during the valve overlap period, when both the exhaust and intake valves are off their seats. For the header to function properly it must have the following characteristics: Primary header pipes must be small enough to maintain the strength of the compression waves and suction waves in the pipes. Primary header pipes must be large enough to allow optimal flow of gases past the exhaust valve, and down the header pipes. Primary header pipes must be of proper length to ensure correct arrival time of the scavenging wave that will be reflected back to the exhaust valve. Collector must be of proper diameter and length to provide the correct duration and intensity of the scavenging wave. Primary header pipes and collectors must produce a scavenging wave that is present at the exhaust valve during the valve overlap period over an established operating RPM range for the engine. __________________ "everyone wants to go to heaven. but nobody wants to die" "you gotta pay to play" SEMA PICTURES-PARTS & CARS http://www.pbase.com/haveblue/sema_2009

08-25-2009, 07:52 PM	#33
HaveBlue Drives: CTS/CAMARO Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: SEMA/PERF INDUSTRY GUY Posts: 488	Edelbrock will have a shorty set too. __________________ "everyone wants to go to heaven. but nobody wants to die" "you gotta pay to play" SEMA PICTURES-PARTS & CARS http://www.pbase.com/haveblue/sema_2009

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08-25-2009, 11:14 AM	#29
SK360 Account Suspended Drives: 2005 Pontiac GTO Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 591	My Jethot Coated mild steel longtubes have peeled under the car as well and have nice rust spots... Should have bought Kooks for but $600 with midpipes it was worth it I still say go longtubes if you are going through the trouble to install fancy manifolds (Shorties).

08-25-2009, 05:36 PM	#30
allblackedout black is better Drives: black 2ss, black 911 conv Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: buffalo,ny Posts: 10	i understand that the longtubes are better and why but my question is if you put on a set of diverters with shorties do you think that you would get similar results as with a set of longtubes

08-25-2009, 07:20 PM	#32
SS 376 Drives: 2010 IBM 1SS (Former) Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NoVA Posts: 2,031	We should do a shorty header shoot-out between JBA, Doug Thorley and Kooks(?)

02-20-2010, 02:44 AM	#34
somewhatdamaged Drives: 16' 2SS M6 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Earth Posts: 573	I've had both long tubes, and shorties on different cars: longs on my C5 Z06 and shorties on my GTO. I think it depends a lot on how far with the power mods you plan/are willing to go: If you just want a little power and don't plan on a cam, forced induction etc...you really don't need the long tubes IMO. In CA, long tubes are just too much hassle, and while you get a nice power bump, it's not worth the aggravation for me. For one, I'm really sensitive to drone, and unless your willing to stick to stock mufflers or spend a grand on some shiny pipes that idle like a motor boat you're probably gonna have some drone. You also end up spending more than you thought on install, tuning etc..unless you can do the long tubes yourself. As this car is similar in size and has a similar exhaust to the GTO, maybe drone will not be an issue, I haven't been in a Camaro with long tubes. I'm just not willing to take the risk or hassle of changing out the mufflers/sound deadening etc to try and rid the cabin of unwanted noise. Basically, I'm over it, no long tubes for my forthcoming Camaro. The shorties I had were JBA stainless and I saved by installing them myself as they are much easier. I doubt I gained more than 10 hp or so, but did improve the butt dyno and sound a nice bit. I seriously doubt there will be any power differences between the various companies shorties, I would just go with the best price.