Is E85 the way to go for more HP?

[Jeff_SS]

E85 ftw.
I have a Fore twin pump system with FIC1000's (fuel injector clinic), and flex fuel sensor.

[STUNNAH]

Originally Posted by sbmit

Where are you getting ID850's for $600?

I stand corrected the ID's are $920, the Vengeance Racing injectors are $600...

[STUNNAH]

Originally Posted by Mkn95u0

This is the 1st time I've heard of this, i'm going to have to read into this.

edit: not that it should change much on my end since my oil changes are around 1500-2500 miles or after 2 race days, but still something i was unaware of.

This is the same recommendation I received from Vengeance Racing, related to changing the oil at half interval...I only have a stage one kit and I think the mindset is that most or going to drag or track their car...Heat breaks done the oil and those with major builds are looking for metal deposits and are recommended to have the old oil tested for deposits to ensure no internal engine damage...Some of the better versed members can explain this in greater detail than me...I don't drag or track my car but I do check the oil level and color more often...I think the same is true with the trans fluid...

[OVERPAR73]

What injectors are you guys recommending? Should I go with the ID 1300's? I'm still waiting on an estimate for the full swap over kit to E85.

[ZL1 Lingenfelter]

I went with Fuel Injector Connection's 127lb/ 1350 cc all stainless injectors - recommended by Lingenfelter. They're fully 85 compatible, matched within 1% of flow, and around $800 (overnighted) instead of $1500 or whatever Inj Dynamics is expecting you to fork over now. Very tune-able. Also, you can buy a sensor for a GM (continental) for $100 online and a few fittings and a pc of hose from NAPA for $40 instead of the $400 DSX kit. You can also wire in a Kenne Bell Boost a Pump on full voltage to your Fuel Voltage Controller for $250 instead of $2500 for return system, and If you know a good tuner, you can get it programmed for much less than most shop rates.

Everyone seems to automatically fork over the money for DSX, and FORE, but it all seems over priced and unnecessary IMO. I prefer to do all my own work and research the crap out of things like fuel.. There are many other options for fuel deliver (DW makes different pumps motors same fuel pump assy for example) before you NEED a full return line system.. That may be the way to go IF you are like me and enjoy doing your own work. I also like that the car is only modified with bolt ons. I have all the stock pcs - and short of the machined snout for pulley clearance, I can put the car back to 100% stock using the stock parts just unclipping things and bolting stock ones back on.

To help with Blower temps (IAT2) I added $140? Rotofab S/C Coolant Res instead of and expensive HX or Freon kit which - btwn the cooling effects of e85 and the reservoir - keeps IAT2 below 100 degrees.. Also - I run & recommend a Dashlogic to tell me Short and Long AFR adjustments, Alcohol content my car blends btwn 10% and 100% ethanol (e85 is 99 octane - e98 is about 105 btw), knock, mpg, Boost temp, fuel demand and pressure, etc. Pretty helpful simple tool with about 100 Data points to pick from for $250 to make sure everything all working well. Good luck with your build. Should add btwn 50 and 100whp depending on tune and ethanol blend.

[STUNNAH]

Originally Posted by ZL1 Lingenfelter

I went with Fuel Injector Connection's 127lb/ 1350 cc all stainless injectors. They're fully 85 compatible, matched within 1% of flow, and around $800 (overnighted) instead of $1500 or whatever Inj Dynamics is expecting you to fork over now. Very tune-able. Also, you can buy a sensor for a GM (continental) for $100 online and a few fittings and a pc of hose from NAPA for $40 instead of the $400 DSX kit. You can also wire in a Kenne Bell Boost a Pump on full voltage to your Fuel Voltage Controller for $250 instead of $2500 for return system, and If you know a good tuner, you can get it programmed for much less than most shop rates. Everyone seems to automatically fork over the money for DSX, and FORE, but it all seems over priced and unnecessary IMO. I do all my own work, and am friends with a tuner from a nationally known shop here in Indiana There are many other options for fuel (different pumps motors same fuel pump assy) before you NEED a full return line system, IF you are like me and looking to save a little money for the same result. I added Rotofab S/C Coolant Res instead of HX or Freon kit which - btwn the cooling effects of e85 and the reservoir keeps Blower temps below 100 degrees.. Also - I run/recommend a Dashlogic to tell me Short and Long AFR adjustments, Alcohol content my car blends btwn 10% and 100% ethanol (e85 is 99 octane - e98 is about 105 btw), knock, mpg, Boost temp, fuel demand and pressure, etc. Pretty helpful simple tool with about 100 Data points to pick from for $250 to make sure everything all working well. Good luck with your build. Should add btwn 50 and 100whp depending on tune and ethanol blend.

Really good info for the DIY's...Your complete mod list does not show in your signature, if you go in and write the mods above the pic they will show...Do you mind giving a bit more info on your statement regarding a possible 100rwhp gain???Not sure but I think you have the octane ratings mixed up...

[ZL1 Lingenfelter]

Are ya saying you cant see my signature? Or my sweet "Highest HP Chevy" trophy? Or you can and didnt think its complete? - it is complete.... (except maybe rear seat delete, Rx catch can, painted strut brace and new MPSS tires), but I assume those things are insignificant?....

As far as the fuel - Nearly pure 100% ethanol can be bought that is about 105 octane (using R+M/2 in USA). E98 has 2% pollutants that gov't insists is added so people dont drink it, is more common and runs about 104 octane, and E85 (contains 15% of hydrocarbon based fuel - potentially 85-93 octane) is about 99 octane.

The benefit of it comes from running cooler temps since it requires 30% more fuel in the air mixture. Between the octane - which is a slower burn - AND the bonus fuel - it cools the combustion chamber allowing more timing advance to be added before spark knock occurs. Depending on the mods people have - it can add upto 100whp with e98. I ran e78 (had some 93 in the tank when I added e85) and gained 80whp (610 on 93, 690 on e78). If i buy e98 i should be able to add a bit more timing and take adv of the higher octane and make another 10whp anyway.

Some cars are a bit restricted and run on 91 octane cuz that is all that is available - but have maxed out the blower speed, maybe running Cats w COT protection still on, and dont have much for added cooling. These folks would see the highest gain from ethanol, because the cooling effect would significantly help IAT2 (blower temp) and EGT (exh gas temp), saving Cats with out going into COT (adding extra fuel - running rich - to prevent Cats from burning up) and the octane level is a bigger jump than they are currently running - resulting in bigger whp gain to be had.

Info on e85 http://www.sunocoracefuels.com/fuel/e85-r
Info on e98 http://gulfracingfuels.com/e98-ethanol-race-fuel/
Info on e100 http://e98racing.com/web/

[ZL1 Lingenfelter]

P.S. I have some 950 cc e85 compatible injectors for sale like new if anyone is interested.. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469194

[STUNNAH]

[QUOTE]=ZL1 Lingenfelter;9374605]Are ya saying you cant see my signature? Or my sweet "Highest HP Chevy" trophy? Or you can and didnt think its complete? - it is complete.... (except maybe rear seat delete, Rx catch can, painted strut brace and new MPSS tires), but I assume those things are insignificant?....[QUOTE]

I had thought that you may have included more info regarding the build of your car and if it's written after the pic most of it will not show...Nice trophy...And I misread the ethanol ratings...Thanks for the info...

[ZL W0N]

I gained 40whp by doing a 93 and E85 50/50 mix. I need to upgrade my fuel pump to run 100% E85, but my ID850 injectors are just fine. Currently at 703whp/693wtq on E85/93

[ZL W0N]

Plus E85 has good cooling properties too.

[OVERPAR73]

Really impressive build. I wish I was more knowledge with my motor like your do it yourself work you completed. I may have to get with you to save some money on this project. Your right with all the prices on all this stuff, ridiculous. I'm still waiting on an estimate on the switch over to the E85 system.

Bill

Originally Posted by ZL1 Lingenfelter

Are ya saying you cant see my signature? Or my sweet "Highest HP Chevy" trophy? Or you can and didnt think its complete? - it is complete.... (except maybe rear seat delete, Rx catch can, painted strut brace and new MPSS tires), but I assume those things are insignificant?....

As far as the fuel - Nearly pure 100% ethanol can be bought that is about 105 octane (using R+M/2 in USA). E98 has 2% pollutants that gov't insists is added so people dont drink it, is more common and runs about 104 octane, and E85 (contains 15% of hydrocarbon based fuel - potentially 85-93 octane) is about 99 octane.

The benefit of it comes from running cooler temps since it requires 30% more fuel in the air mixture. Between the octane - which is a slower burn - AND the bonus fuel - it cools the combustion chamber allowing more timing advance to be added before spark knock occurs. Depending on the mods people have - it can add upto 100whp with e98. I ran e78 (had some 93 in the tank when I added e85) and gained 80whp (610 on 93, 690 on e78). If i buy e98 i should be able to add a bit more timing and take adv of the higher octane and make another 10whp anyway.

Some cars are a bit restricted and run on 91 octane cuz that is all that is available - but have maxed out the blower speed, maybe running Cats w COT protection still on, and dont have much for added cooling. These folks would see the highest gain from ethanol, because the cooling effect would significantly help IAT2 (blower temp) and EGT (exh gas temp), saving Cats with out going into COT (adding extra fuel - running rich - to prevent Cats from burning up) and the octane level is a bigger jump than they are currently running - resulting in bigger whp gain to be had.

Info on e85 http://www.sunocoracefuels.com/fuel/e85-r
Info on e98 http://gulfracingfuels.com/e98-ethanol-race-fuel/
Info on e100 http://e98racing.com/web/

[ZL1 Lingenfelter]

Originally Posted by ZL W0N

I gained 40whp by doing a 93 and E85 50/50 mix. I need to upgrade my fuel pump to run 100% E85, but my ID850 injectors are just fine. Currently at 703whp/693wtq on E85/93

We make almost the exact same power. I had my tuner check my 950 CC injectors at wot and they were running static at 110 percent. Sometimes people don't check that particular PID while programming so I would just be curious if your programmer did or did not. It just seems that those injectors have to be completely maxed out at that power level. Usually you only want your injectors to max out at 80% of their capacity. Especially if you don't mix the fuel exactly 50-50 and run E85 directly it will use a lot more fuel than the mixed, and could run lean. And lean has bad results. Just a suggestion from my experience. Ted Janetty can comment as well.

[OVERPAR73]

I just got my estimate back from Karl's Performance for the complete E85 conversion, it is $3,775.00. I'm concerned because they are going to use the ID850 injectors and I don't think they are big enough for the power I'm wanting. I would like to get to the 800 RWHP minimum. Any suggestions is always welcome, thanks.

Bill