E85 Compatibility

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by chevydude26

opec isn't the only group selling oil..they could produce more supply but they choose not too...but there is more supply in canada ...its really not opec's fault...

I did the research for another thread. OPEC sells us 3 times as much oil as we buy from Canada.

Originally Posted by theholycow

Here's some data that may be fact. It is crude oil supply numbers reported by the US Department Of Energy:
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pe...im0_mbbl_a.htm
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pe...adc_mbbl_a.htm
2007 Total crude oil: 5,518,611 barrels
2007 US domestic produced oil: 1,862,441 barrels (~33.7% of total)
2007 Imported oil:3,656,170 barrels (~66% of total)
- OPEC - 1,968,765 barrels (~35.6% of total, ~54% of import)
- Non-OPEC - 1,687,405 barrels (~30.5% of total, ~46% of import)
-- Canada - 680,533 barrels (~12.3% of total, ~18.6% of import)
-- Mexico - 514,480 barrels (~9.3% of total, ~14% of import)

It's hard to format that kind of data for easy, efficient presentation using the vBulletin forum input box. :(

Anyway, in summary...OPEC produces 35.6% of the crude oil we use, which is certainly a major portion by anyone's standards, though not the as much as one might think. OPEC produces for us approximately the same amount of oil that we produce domestically for ourselves, which is a rather interesting tidbit.

[chevydude26]

Originally Posted by theholycow

I did the research for another thread. OPEC sells us 3 times as much oil as we buy from Canada.

regardless my point remains the same opec is only 36% of our consumption...its not enough to affect the price of everybody else...they don't set the price

and our own supplies which we aren't drilling have more oil than the opec nations...

thats going to affect the price by a lot if we start to allow companies to drill it and introduce it to the supply

[theholycow]

Domestic drilling sounds good to me, but nobody's going to do it and sell for less than the going price. Basic economics, I think, says that 36% market share (and having the largest single chunk of market share) is more than enough to have a very strong influence on price. Certainly, when OPEC reduces production, we pay more for the oil we get from everyone. Speculative investors may have something to do with it too.

However, maybe we're just saving our reserves for when OPEC runs out. Then we'll be able to shove it in their face and say "Yeah, you're our bitch now! Bend over..." as we charge them way more than they ever charged us. :seesaw:

[chevydude26]

Originally Posted by theholycow

Domestic drilling sounds good to me, but nobody's going to do it and sell for less than the going price. Basic economics, I think, says that 36% market share (and having the largest single chunk of market share) is more than enough to have a very strong influence on price. Certainly, when OPEC reduces production, we pay more for the oil we get from everyone. Speculative investors may have something to do with it too.

However, maybe we're just saving our reserves for when OPEC runs out. Then we'll be able to shove it in their face and say "Yeah, you're our bitch now! Bend over..." as we charge them way more than they ever charged us. :seesaw:

well opec definitely is not producing as much as it could as it probably likes that the price is this high...

and speculators are just reacting to the supply out there which they see is behind a bit by demand...

and in these markets there is a 50% change in price when you are only 1% above or below demand i've read...don't know how accurate that is but if it is and we can flood the market with our supply i'm certain the price in the market will lower tremendously

sadly with dems controlling congress for probably a long time and even if mccain wins its hard to see us drilling

unless of course americans wake up and demand this to happen and either vote those opposed out or force them to do it by threatining to vote them out

[The_Blur]

I wish we had more E85. E85 is cheaper than ordinary gas, and getting enough of it would make demand for gas go down, lowering the price of ordinary gas at the same time. I wish we could synthesize it without using so much corn.

[DGthe3]

Ethanol is not to blame for rising food costs. here are 3 things to consider.
1) China needs to eat, and they eat more than any nation on earth, and they cannot grow nearly enough to support themselves. And this demand has only occured recently. So as total producion in north america has stayed more or less level, demand has gone way up.
2) Why did people start using ethanol derived from corn as a fuel? Because the price of oil was going up. Modern industrial scale farming requires massive amounts of pesticides and fertilizer derived from oil. The increase in use of corn based ethanol was caused by the same things that caused an increase in food prices.
3) If corn and derived food products (corn chips, glucose, etc) were all going up independant of other foods you might have a serious argument. But any food that I have searched for has gone up: wheat, tomatoes, apples, potatoes, bananas, everything. None of those are used in the production of biofuel. So either there are 2 different sets of rules, or ethanol isn't to blame.

[Cessna510]

Higher fuel prices means it costs more to get the products to us ,simple as that.I run E85 in my tahoe somtimes and although it's cheaper it seems to burn faster...tested it a couple times actually :(

[Myka]

The higher compression, the more efficient ethanol is. Take a look at some high performance articles. This stuff doesn't detonate. Since higher compression means better mileage for any fuel, we can have better mileage with ethanol once combustion engines fully convert to it with high compression. I'm talking somewhere in the 13:1 range and maybe higher.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

I wish we had more E85. E85 is cheaper than ordinary gas, and getting enough of it would make demand for gas go down, lowering the price of ordinary gas at the same time. I wish we could synthesize it without using so much corn.

We can, it's just that most people in the business really don't want to make an effort to try anything else. It is made from just the corn kernels, or maybe even just the corn oil, and the rest is discarded like usual. In fact, it can be made from the whole plant; it can be made from other plants; it can be made from garbage; it can be made from sewage; it can be made from discarded tires; it can be made from grass clippings; it can be made from all kinds of things that are worthless and filling up our landfills, requiring expensive new landfills or expensive transportation to distant landfilles; it can probably even be made from stuff that currently gets recycled requiring huge amounts of energy and cost.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

1) China needs to eat
2) farming requires massive amounts of pesticides and fertilizer derived from oil.

Thank you. I forgot those important points.

Originally Posted by Cessna510

Higher fuel prices means it costs more to get the products to us ,simple as that.I run E85 in my tahoe somtimes and although it's cheaper it seems to burn faster...tested it a couple times actually :(

Yup, in an engine not optimized for it, it's not going to go quite as far. :(

[Mr. Wyndham]

...How did this go from "Will the Camaro be able to drive on E85" to.....this?!?!



Oh, and that bit about ethanol being the reason the worlds food prices have increased is terribly wrong. It accounts for (at worst) about 3% of the increase in price. Hardly worth mentioning. but wait, there's more:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...0,481881.story

[chevydude26]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

...How did this go from "Will the Camaro be able to drive on E85" to.....this?!?!



Oh, and that bit about ethanol being the reason the worlds food prices have increased is terribly wrong. It accounts for (at worst) about 3% of the increase in price. Hardly worth mentioning. but wait, there's more:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...0,481881.story

an editorial page from a month ago on a print bias liberal media outlet??? no thanks

i'll take my world bank report that came out jul 5 that directly contradicts that 3% rise in price by a heck of a whole lot done by a body of respected economists over some journalist hack

75% increase exactly

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...enewableenergy

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by chevydude26

an editorial page from a month ago on a print bias liberal media outlet??? no thanks

do you have anything else? I have a lot of nasty things to say about that article -- but I don't want to pollute this thread anymore than it has been.

[Myka]

lol. It has gotten a bit off topic but since nobody here knows the answer to the original question, I guess it's a pretty good discussion. Dragoneye, you don't know, do you?? lol...

[Nickdago]

Originally Posted by Fandango

What do you suggest we do? I'm for making E85,and other alternative fuels, In fact I will buy a volt for my commuting, but I don't want to have food sky rocket either. Can't we just increase corn production? I know we need more land, but if my brother in-law can grow stuff in his room using hydropnics, can't we do the same thing in large plants or wearhouses? I mean we put chemicals in vegetables already, can't we just make special corn on steroid that's made just for making E85? For know I think we have to drill. Some one said something about everyone will just have to stop driving gas guzzlers and SUVs. Even if we stop driving SUVs and gas guzzlers,(I dare some idiot liberal like Al Gore to tell me to stop driving my Camaro), That not even a 20% of consumption. We have to make big semi-trucks efficient as well, not to mention commercial airplanes, commercial transportation, cargo ships, and the list goes on. We cannot stifle our American auto industry including ford and Chrysler. Oh, by the way, other German, Italian, British, and Japanese auto manufacturers are losing mony too because we are not buying their cars. The whole world is in this sh*t too.

I dare some one to tell me I can't buy this car or question my priorities. I'm for the American economy and the American way! I want to have my Camaro and fill her up and not have to think twice about how much it costs. I want to enjoy the spoils of my success.

On a happier note, everybody going to buy some stock in GM on monday? I hear we can get it for $7. I think that should boost the moral.

Actually GM is working with a couple of startups to make ethanol out of things like trash and old rubber tires, switch grass and corn stalks among other things rather than the corn. I heard they were 1 to 3 years of making a viable ethanol alternative to corn ethanol. I just saw a report that said we have just used 35% to 40% of all our corn crop to grow gas, that is totally ridiculous. As far as growing more corn from what I understand we are already close to max as far as farm land and water goes.