CAFE What's it doing to the industry?

[headpunter]

when you are lobbying for 25 billion in loans you dont say you dont aggree with whomever you are trying to get a loan from.

[Wm Holden]

I want the town I work in to make big beautiful sidewalks and parks and make everything just peachy...but i don't want them to close my street (they did)

[headpunter]

really if they would just lobby to repeal Cafe. market forces would force the fuel economy in vehicles to decrease on its own. if you look at it. cafe will force gas prices up considering increased fuel mileage means less gas sold means fuel companies need to make more money hence charge more to survive lower sales.

[diddiyo]

Originally Posted by headpunter

when you are lobbying for 25 billion in loans you dont say you dont aggree with whomever you are trying to get a loan from.

so basically they're lying to the people that are paying for their bailout :>

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by diddiyo

so basically they're lying to the people that are paying for their bailout :>

As a company, GM could agree with CAFE -- but that doesn't mean Lutz, or Wagoner, etc has to.

And it's not a "bailout". This isn't even a case of fancy wording...This money is open to ALL automakers, and it will be paid back with interest(albeit at a low rate). The $25 billion was already approved of in the CAFE bill, in fact. What they're pushing for right now is to actually get the funding for it. Congress has a funny way of promising stuff they don't have ready......

It's like a construction project. They've already got the building plans, and the acreage...right now they're trying to get the shovel to actually start digging.

[Wm Holden]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

As a company, GM could agree with CAFE -- but that doesn't mean Lutz, or Wagoner, etc has to.

And it's not a "bailout". This isn't even a case of fancy wording...This money is open to ALL automakers, and it will be paid back with interest(albeit at a low rate). The $25 billion was already approved of in the CAFE bill, in fact. What they're pushing for right now is to actually get the funding for it. Congress has a funny way of promising stuff they don't have ready......

It's like a construction project. They've already got the building plans, and the acreage...right now they're trying to get the shovel to actually start digging.

or...just now planting the seed ....that will grow into the tree........... that will be cut down........ to make the handle on the shovel ........they will buy when it's finished being made....right? (if the tree huggers don't regulate that into non-existance)

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

It isn't just the greens. I don't like 'em either, but a vast portion of the people supporting CAFE believe it will reduce the USA's foriegn fuel consumption........maybe in the next decade..........

Like it has currently reduced our foreign oil consumption since CAFE was first enacted in the '70s? NOT!! And never will! Like anything else our feeble minded government has touched, if there is a way to screw it up they will. I'm in favor of the marketplace determining what vehicles are produced and their specifications. Leave the government out of our personal decisions about how we want to live our lives and what we want to purchase, they can't keep from running a deficit in their budget, let them keep their cotton pickin fingers out of mine!
Clyde

[mega]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

Yes it does, BUT the hitch is a number (i think its 20,000). If you sell less than that quantity in TOTAL company sales in the USA then you are exempt from CAFE.

Ferrari generally only makes about about that many cars for the world in total a year... so yea they qualify for the exemption... Porsche on the other hand is completely screwed and from the rumors I've heard is contemplating pulling out the US market COMPLETELY...

didnt they change the rule to 0.4% of the U.S. market — or roughly 64,000 annual sales

that exempts porsche

[mega]

Originally Posted by wildpaws

Like it has currently reduced our foreign oil consumption since CAFE was first enacted in the '70s? NOT!! And never will! Like anything else our feeble minded government has touched, if there is a way to screw it up they will. I'm in favor of the marketplace determining what vehicles are produced and their specifications. Leave the government out of our personal decisions about how we want to live our lives and what we want to purchase, they can't keep from running a deficit in their budget, let them keep their cotton pickin fingers out of mine!
Clyde

me too, bring on 6$ a gallon so the SUV's are gone

[Zhawk]

Originally Posted by mega

me too, bring on 6$ a gallon so the SUV's are gone

Sorry, but that is a ridiculous statement. Oh yeah, $6 a gallon will really cut into SUV sales but, it will also...

Force some people to keep their current car longer as they can't afford to buy gas AND make a car payment...
Drive up the cost of basically everything else, from groceries to services. Everyone has to charge extra for stuff.
Create an inflation rate that we'd be hard put to stop considering all the other weakenesses in our current economy.

The current cost of gas, along with the prices that we just backed off of, are plenty high enough to get people moving into smaller, more efficient vehicles without creating a massive economic disaster.

Read that quote again:

GM continues to believe that a single set of tough national fuel economy standards is the best way to focus the industry’s efforts and to reduce fuel consumption and CO2 emissions nationwide.

Now, let me point out the word that is most critical here, SINGLE

What is needed and wanted is one set standard thoughout the US and for all auto manufacturer. That statement, I believe, is referencing California's enactment of their own standards, both for fuel economy and for emmissions. Read it that way and the statement makes perfect sense. What company would want to have to produce a product with a hodgepodge of standards that they have to meet, depending on where that product is to be sold.

[mega]

Originally Posted by Zhawk

Sorry, but that is a ridiculous statement. Oh yeah, $6 a gallon will really cut into SUV sales

so wait, market driven changes are bad now? the above poster wants the market to determine gas price and auto MPG

you cant have your cake and eat it too?

if the market keeps running like it is, we will have 6 $ a gallon gas, it's not if, it's when, it will get there

wholesale gas jumped 1.50 a gallon yesterday because of the hurricane

that's how slim our supply system is, and how easy it is to profiteer on news

[Zhawk]

Originally Posted by mega

so wait, market driven changes are bad now? the above poster wants the market to determine gas price and auto MPG

you cant have your cake and eat it too?

if the market keeps running like it is, we will have 6 $ a gallon gas, it's not if, it's when, it will get there

wholesale gas jumped 1.50 a gallon yesterday because of the hurricane

that's how slim our supply system is, and how easy it is to profiteer on news

I've been whatching the market and $6 is not right around the corner. I'm not against market driven changes but the extremism of $6 a gallon gas in today's economy will do what I just said and cause more problems that it would cure. Our supply isn't THAT slim, we just have a bunch of people who know how to make a profit of news, sensationalism, and panic.

[Zhawk]

Originally Posted by mega

wholesale gas jumped 1.50 a gallon yesterday because of the hurricane

On question, where is the source of this? I haven't seen ANYTHING like this, crude oil prices yes, not wholesale gas.

[Congoman775]

there wasnt a single thing in this thread which explains why there isnt a Z28 model. even if it is limited edition.

It wouldnt sell at numbers capable of affecting CAFE results for GM, esp. if it was something like 10k sold a year.

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