Shno's House of Z - Page 315 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

2cnd chance · 01-16-2011, 07:28 PM

GM you have your heritage, please use it!

It's great for marketing!

ShnOmac · 01-16-2011, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete

I still giggle everytime i see that...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

But I've got a question for you, now...suppose this unicorn car handled just as well as the Boss, but had the power of the GT500 (I'm only drawing Mustang comparisons to guide the conversation...I don't consider the Ford a "benchmark")...could you justify the name?

I would be very impressed if said beast could out gun the GT500 and out handle the Boss

That being said..... I dont think it could happen and keep the price close enough to call it a competitor for the Boss. Sooooo then its just a GT500 fighter and we are left with a gap in the line up that Ford has covered.

But as to your real question....(i got side tracked

) Yes a car of those qualitys would surely deserve a great name and Z/28 is a great name!

*Mr. Wyndham* · 01-16-2011, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

I still giggle everytime i see that...

I would be very impressed if said beast could out gun the GT500 and out handle the Boss

That being said..... I dont think it could happen and keep the price close enough to call it a competitor for the Boss. Sooooo then its just a GT500 fighter and we are left with a gap in the line up that Ford has covered.

But as to your real question....(i got side tracked

) Yes a car of those qualitys would surely deserve a great name and Z/28 is a great name!

I only ask because I think there's become this silent assumption that they can't make the car both handle and have power....I tend to believe otherwise.

ShnOmac · 01-17-2011, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I only ask because I think there's become this silent assumption that they can't make the car both handle and have power....I tend to believe otherwise.

I have full faith that they can make it do both as well!

Im going to keep wishing for more than one new "Performance" model...

*Mr. Wyndham* · 01-17-2011, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

I have full faith that they can make it do both as well!

Im going to keep wishing for more than one new "Performance" model...

I'll wish for it, too....but CAFE keeps looming over my dreams......:(

ShnOmac · 01-17-2011, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I'll wish for it, too....but CAFE keeps looming over my dreams......:(

Just another reason they need to hurry up and drop a GenV DI v8 in our Camaros....

*Mr. Wyndham* · 01-17-2011, 01:19 AM

Number 3 · 01-17-2011, 10:58 AM

Corvette is an excellent example of making a car more powerful and also have better handling. There is really nothing about the Camaro that precludes it from handling better. It just can't handle as good as it could because of it's size and weight. But it has plenty of room to grow in both areas. Just not sure what is in the works. Ok that's a lie, I do, but I'm not telling.

CAFE (California A$$hats Fuel Economy - and no offense to our California friends, it's just your leadership) rules are going to have a very large impact on the vehicles you will have the choice to purchase. You simply can not legislate technology for fuel economy and emissions. What you are forcing is a market with vehicles that people won't want to buy unless it's their choice. For it to be their choice, fuel prices will have to go higher, much higher. And studies I've seen indicate people don't want smaller vehicles. They are even willing to simply drive less if fuel prices go up. And that my friends is their choice. CAFE makes a choice for them and forces a smaller sized pool of vehicles with more expensive technologies.

I always joked that if gas were free our European friends would want 57 Eldorados with giant tail fins. But now having been there, even if gas were free, you'd have no place to park such a beast and the size of the roads in the smaller and much older towns would still drive you to smaller cars just for the convenience of parking and getting around. We don't have expensive fuel and I can park a Suburban pretty much anywhere in the U.S. New York and some other cities may be tougher, but the Yukon XL I am driving right now is as easy to get around in a Cruze.

Now if you believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Clause and Unicorns, batteries will be as cheap as AA batteries at the grocery store and give you 300 mile range and 2 minute recharges. And maybe in 10 years that will be true, it's just not today or the near term. Batteries are not cheap and recycling them costs more than the materials that are in them are worth. At least an LS3 can be melted down and reused cheaply. Not so with a LiION battery pack.

But I can assure you GM wants you to have your Camaro and love the performance of it. And GM is working hard to make sure that is possible for the very long term.

Number 3 · 01-17-2011, 11:02 AM

Hmmmmm did I just violate the House Rules? No bitching? Maybe. Sorry for that.

FenwickHockey65 · 01-17-2011, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number 3

Now if you believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Clause and Unicorns, batteries will be as cheap as AA batteries at the grocery store and give you 300 mile range and 2 minute recharges. And maybe in 10 years that will be true, it's just not today or the near term.

Which is why GM definitely got it right with the Volt. Americans just aren't ready for a car that has such a limited range like the Leaf.

It may not be the cheapest EV in the market, but you get what you pay for. Either drive 100 miles (less, actually) and have to pull over on the side of the road and suck your thumb, or drive 300 miles, find a gas station, fill up and drive another 300 miles, then repeat.

Number 3 · 01-17-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Which is why GM definitely got it right with the Volt. Americans just aren't ready for a car that has such a limited range like the Leaf.

It may not be the cheapest EV in the market, but you get what you pay for. Either drive 100 miles (less, actually) and have to pull over on the side of the road and suck your thumb, or drive 300 miles, find a gas station, fill up and drive another 300 miles, then repeat.

Yep. And hopefully the market recognizes this and makes the Volt the clear winner.

I had a Volt home the weekend before last. Had a situation where the EV range was a few miles less than I knew I needed to get home. It was sure comforting to know I wasn't limited in any way due to the Volt's technology.

As for the Leaf, when you make it known that twice per year you can go to a Nissan dealer and get a gas car for your vacation or other longer trip needs, you are admitting to the limitations that the Volt has overcome. It would be interesting to hear that conversation with a salesman and potential customer.

JusticePete · 01-17-2011, 11:30 AM

The HP Edition Camaro absolutely can do BOTH. There is really nothing special about BOSS handling. The rear is all of 1mm lower. The dampers are minimally adjustable. The rear bar is a bit larger and they added a front chassis brace to tie the sub-frame to the sway bar mounting point. Yawn. The front suspension geometry of the Mustang contributes to lift and dive on all models. The braes are OK.

A HP Edition Camaro can meat the Mustang in the RWHP race. GM should as it is a known competitive benchmark. We can check off that box. The Camaro is working with an IRS and virtual pivot point front suspension. The 5th gen monocoque is more stable. Check off another box. CTS-V brakes with two piece front rotors checks off yet another box. While I am not a fan of electronic suspension it will be superior to the light weight adjustment on the BOSS.

The new Camaro should be better in every way. Ford won't roll over and die, so I fully expect them to release a Camaro HP Edition beater, unless Ford's Mustang TEAM all quit when they completed the BOSS they are already at work on the next level Mustang.

As #3 stated, sooner or later CAFE will become Captain CAFE Buzz Kill so it is our responsibility to purchase the great Performance Cars GM is building while we can. When Captain CAFE Buzz Kill strikes we will be in the early stages of the electric Performance Cars...

FenwickHockey65 · 01-17-2011, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number 3

Yep. And hopefully the market recognizes this and makes the Volt the clear winner.

I had a Volt home the weekend before last. Had a situation where the EV range was a few miles less than I knew I needed to get home. It was sure comforting to know I wasn't limited in any way due to the Volt's technology.

As for the Leaf, when you make it known that twice per year you can go to a Nissan dealer and get a gas car for your vacation or other longer trip needs, you are admitting to the limitations that the Volt has overcome. It would be interesting to hear that conversation with a salesman and potential customer.

I thought the "driving guide" for the Leaf that they had to put out there was absolutely hysterical. I couldn't find a single realistic scenario on it at all.

Volt just sold 555 units...I doubt Leaf is anywhere near that number.

Number 3 · 01-17-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

I thought the "driving guide" for the Leaf that they had to put out there was absolutely hysterical. I couldn't find a single realistic scenario on it at all.

Volt just sold 555 units...I doubt Leaf is anywhere near that number.

I think they sold 30 something units if I recall correctly. They opening admitted to botching the launch.

01-17-2011, 01:19 AM	#4403
Mr. Wyndham I used to be Dragoneye... Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 31,873 View My Garage	__________________ *"Keep the faith."* - Fbodfather

01-17-2011, 10:58 AM	#4404
Number 3 Hail to the King baby! Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 12,307 View My Garage	Corvette is an excellent example of making a car more powerful and also have better handling. There is really nothing about the Camaro that precludes it from handling better. It just can't handle as good as it could because of it's size and weight. But it has plenty of room to grow in both areas. Just not sure what is in the works. Ok that's a lie, I do, but I'm not telling. CAFE (California A$$hats Fuel Economy - and no offense to our California friends, it's just your leadership) rules are going to have a very large impact on the vehicles you will have the choice to purchase. You simply can not legislate technology for fuel economy and emissions. What you are forcing is a market with vehicles that people won't want to buy unless it's their choice. For it to be their choice, fuel prices will have to go higher, much higher. And studies I've seen indicate people don't want smaller vehicles. They are even willing to simply drive less if fuel prices go up. And that my friends is their choice. CAFE makes a choice for them and forces a smaller sized pool of vehicles with more expensive technologies. I always joked that if gas were free our European friends would want 57 Eldorados with giant tail fins. But now having been there, even if gas were free, you'd have no place to park such a beast and the size of the roads in the smaller and much older towns would still drive you to smaller cars just for the convenience of parking and getting around. We don't have expensive fuel and I can park a Suburban pretty much anywhere in the U.S. New York and some other cities may be tougher, but the Yukon XL I am driving right now is as easy to get around in a Cruze. Now if you believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Clause and Unicorns, batteries will be as cheap as AA batteries at the grocery store and give you 300 mile range and 2 minute recharges. And maybe in 10 years that will be true, it's just not today or the near term. Batteries are not cheap and recycling them costs more than the materials that are in them are worth. At least an LS3 can be melted down and reused cheaply. Not so with a LiION battery pack. But I can assure you GM wants you to have your Camaro and love the performance of it. And GM is working hard to make sure that is possible for the very long term. __________________ "Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley

01-17-2011, 11:02 AM	#4405
Number 3 Hail to the King baby! Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 12,307 View My Garage	Hmmmmm did I just violate the House Rules? No bitching? Maybe. Sorry for that. __________________ "Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley

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01-16-2011, 07:28 PM	#4397
2cnd chance Too Many Great Choices Drives: Grand Sport/Z07 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: A Mountain Road Posts: 7,454	GM you have your heritage, please use it! It's great for marketing!

01-17-2011, 11:30 AM	#4408
JusticePete Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 20,171	The HP Edition Camaro absolutely can do BOTH. There is really nothing special about BOSS handling. The rear is all of 1mm lower. The dampers are minimally adjustable. The rear bar is a bit larger and they added a front chassis brace to tie the sub-frame to the sway bar mounting point. Yawn. The front suspension geometry of the Mustang contributes to lift and dive on all models. The braes are OK. A HP Edition Camaro can meat the Mustang in the RWHP race. GM should as it is a known competitive benchmark. We can check off that box. The Camaro is working with an IRS and virtual pivot point front suspension. The 5th gen monocoque is more stable. Check off another box. CTS-V brakes with two piece front rotors checks off yet another box. While I am not a fan of electronic suspension it will be superior to the light weight adjustment on the BOSS. The new Camaro should be better in every way. Ford won't roll over and die, so I fully expect them to release a Camaro HP Edition beater, unless Ford's Mustang TEAM all quit when they completed the BOSS they are already at work on the next level Mustang. As #3 stated, sooner or later CAFE will become Captain CAFE Buzz Kill so it is our responsibility to purchase the great Performance Cars GM is building while we can. When Captain CAFE Buzz Kill strikes we will be in the early stages of the electric Performance Cars...