Camaro SS manual shipment (not production) hold officially confirmed by GM (UPDATED) - Page 33 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

z06invb · 07-15-2009, 07:14 PM

Lets see. Drive car, car breaks. Have car towed to dealer. Defective parts removed and new parts installed. Car returned. Cost is zero and all is well.

Not seeing the problem here. Sounds like a limited problem that will be easily solved.

Want to read about tremec problems Google Shelby GT 500 2007 to mid 2009 TSB. They have entire threads on the stuff. At least GM is fixing them up front not letting them go with a TSB and then when it breaks a year from now say it is a clutch issue and out of warranty.

My 1993 Mustang Cobra sheared a input shaft with 12 miles on the clock. No biggie. 3 days later it was back with new tranny and no other issues.

IROCanSS · 07-15-2009, 07:21 PM

I am subscribing b/c I have just got my TPW of 8/3 for an LS3...

ffrcobra_65 · 07-15-2009, 07:24 PM

parts that are made batched and closely categorized so to speak....batch number, build date, inspected by, etc. etc.

I assume....
GM, in this case, collects data from the vehicles that suffered the problem. Vin number, build date, car activity when problem occurred etc. and they look for commonality to see if these vehicles were given parts from a certain batch of parts, built within a date range, under a common driving stress when the problem occured, etc. If it is determined the problem can be isolated to a part's batch # used and/or build date, then it can be safely assumed that produced cars outside those are ok.

Malachi · 07-15-2009, 08:54 PM

Well, I made it thru much, but no where near all of this thread...going to comment anyway. Please, allow me to preface this with a few facts. 1) I am NOT an engineer (proud to say that. LOL) 2) I am NOT a metallurgist. 3) I spent a little over 2 years dealing w/ GM Powertrain plants, specifically on the raw materials (read: Steel) side. 4) I am currently involved with a company getting ready to launch a transmission. 5) I'm in purchasing

Now, IF (note: big if!) this is an issue w/ the output shaft it isn't a GM issue. As previously stated the trans is a purchased component and while this model may be specific to the Camaro, it is a trans from a proven company. Is it the 'cheapest' option? Yeah, knowing GM purchasing, it probably is the cheapest. That does NOT mean it is cheap! Anyway, assuming that the output shaft is sheering/snapping/break under torque (again, just speculation!!) then there is a boatload of research that needs to be done to determine WHY that is the case. Again, assuming it can be narrowed down to JUST the output shaft (not vehicle design related or assembly related or anything else) then they have more questions to answer: Why now? Remember, this car has made it into launch with this trans and some cars have shipped w/o issues and that is a process unto itself! How long has the issue existed? 1 shipment? 2? all of them? What will be taken to contain the issue? In the field? In the factor? In transit? Why now? What changed? In short, this is NOT a fast process!!

OK, I'm rambling there. For the sake of argument, I'll say this is 100% an output shaft issue (NOT TRUE UNLESS CONFIRMED BY GM!). So, here's what I know about output shafts. 1) It is probably forged or cast (too many chips on the floor going from solid). 2) It is probably heat treated. 3) Is is precision machined. 4) there is a specific grade of steel called out for manufacturing the shaft Each of those leads to possible issues. Has the supplier of the raw forging or casting changed? Were there micro fractures in the raw material that could lead to stresses in machining causing the breaking? Was the heat treat right? To much heat or too long and it gets brittle and, well, can snap. Too little or too short and it is too soft and can/will twist under torque. Did the machining process cause micro fractures? Where there a radius that was too sharp causing a weak spot? Was the right raw material used?

What I know for a fact is this: 1) GM Powertrain will not change a raw material supplier for material going into their plants w/o a full validation run. There is over 100K miles riding on every part in that tranny. 2) When I brought up changing the forging source for my output shaft to my Chief Engineer he got twitchy because it is so sensitive and critical. All we can really do now is wait for a REAL answer from GM and sleep well on the fact that our cars will be RIGHT when they roll into the dealer. Personally, my main source of aggravation is that I have to come to an outside source to get real information on my car status. This is systemic of GM, not your respective dealers. The issue will be corrected, the cars will ship, you will LOVE the drive (I tested a v6, but am waiting on my SS...pre-ordered 10/17/08).

I have to finish by thanking EVERYONE here for all the great info! And, now I'll shut up.

Treadstone · 07-15-2009, 09:02 PM

The MN6 is on constraints, says "corporate decision".

Treadstone · 07-15-2009, 09:07 PM

Also it says the 1ss and 2ss are on constraint due to supplier capacity - what ever that means.

NightmareSS · 07-15-2009, 09:13 PM

can some1 plz explain to me why cars around my vin that are ss manuals have been delivered? im trying to figure out if they skipped qc or went through and got home that fast? and also why did my car get listed as in transit when it went to qc and was never in transit? if some1 can clear that up for me, id be sure to rest assured.... thx in advance

*Mr. Wyndham* · 07-15-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanza

Can someone answer the following question , please ?

What I would like to know is HOW do they check the transmission ? Can't they check it BEFORE it is installed ? So do they complete the car , drive it over to a parking lot then do a few "clutch dumps" @ 5000 rpms and if it doesn’t blow up, it's good to go ?

There's no doubt a procedure they go through to find out what's wrong...but they haven't let us in on exactly how they do it. All we know is that they are investigating the problem, while still building the cars...And yes, they park all the M6 SSs in QC until the cars are ruled good, or the problem is repaired.

Malachi · 07-15-2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valleybacker

Also it says the 1ss and 2ss are on constraint due to supplier capacity - what ever that means.

Supplier Capacity is how much of a given part a supplier can make in a production week. A 'standard' week is something like 20 hours a day 5 days a week. If memory serves, suppliers are required to meet LCR (Lean capacity rate) in that span of time in order to be awarded business. That leaves weekends to meet MCR, which is like 10% or 15% above LCR. So, if the LCR is, say, 100 then the supplier needs to be able to produce 100 pieces per 20 hour day (4 hours for downtime, lunch, changeover, etc) or 500 parts per week. If the program takes off, then they will need to be able to hit the MCR, or 110/115 parts per 20 hour day. If that takes weekends to accomplish your weekly total then such is life.

It's been a while since I have had to deal with that, but that is the general idea. Someone who deals w/ that day to day, please feel free to correct me. Note: NEVER fun when a supplier can't hit LCR on a new launch program...that leads to 8 hour conference calls and GM taking residence in their plant.

jdanza · 07-15-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valleybacker

Also it says the 1ss and 2ss are on constraint due to supplier capacity - what ever that means.

I don't understand what you mean, please explain

Treadstone · 07-15-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanza

I don't understand what you mean, please explain

I don't know man, that's all I got. It says % nation - 45-55%. POA. Supplier Capacity"

Then for the transmission it says "SS models with Manual Trans (MN6); % Nation - 0% - Corporate Decision/Validation"

Kenny · 07-15-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valleybacker

Also it says the 1ss and 2ss are on constraint due to supplier capacity - what ever that means.

What's your source here?

jdanza · 07-15-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valleybacker

I don't know man, that's all I got. It says % nation - 45-55%.

Then for the transmission it says "SS models with Manual Trans (MN6); % Nation - 0%"

ok, thanks.

Treadstone · 07-15-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny

What's your source here?

07-15-2009, 09:02 PM	#453
Treadstone Drives: Z51 BABY! Join Date: May 2009 Location: LSFREE~!!!!! Posts: 786	The MN6 is on constraints, says "corporate decision". __________________

07-15-2009, 09:07 PM	#454
Treadstone Drives: Z51 BABY! Join Date: May 2009 Location: LSFREE~!!!!! Posts: 786	Also it says the 1ss and 2ss are on constraint due to supplier capacity - what ever that means. __________________

07-15-2009, 09:13 PM	#455
NightmareSS Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS 92 300zx 2001 Ram Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Staten Island, NYC Posts: 1,388	can some1 plz explain to me why cars around my vin that are ss manuals have been delivered? im trying to figure out if they skipped qc or went through and got home that fast? and also why did my car get listed as in transit when it went to qc and was never in transit? if some1 can clear that up for me, id be sure to rest assured.... thx in advance __________________

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07-15-2009, 07:14 PM	#449
z06invb Drives: 2001 Chevy Corvette Z06 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 135	Lets see. Drive car, car breaks. Have car towed to dealer. Defective parts removed and new parts installed. Car returned. Cost is zero and all is well. Not seeing the problem here. Sounds like a limited problem that will be easily solved. Want to read about tremec problems Google Shelby GT 500 2007 to mid 2009 TSB. They have entire threads on the stuff. At least GM is fixing them up front not letting them go with a TSB and then when it breaks a year from now say it is a clutch issue and out of warranty. My 1993 Mustang Cobra sheared a input shaft with 12 miles on the clock. No biggie. 3 days later it was back with new tranny and no other issues.

07-15-2009, 07:21 PM	#450
IROCanSS Account Suspended Drives: 89 IROC 350 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Back roads, southern Ohio Posts: 12,504 View My Garage	I am subscribing b/c I have just got my TPW of 8/3 for an LS3...

07-15-2009, 07:24 PM	#451
ffrcobra_65 Account Suspended Drives: SuperCharged 2SS/RS IOM MN6 Join Date: May 2009 Location: CA Posts: 5,094	parts that are made batched and closely categorized so to speak....batch number, build date, inspected by, etc. etc. I assume.... GM, in this case, collects data from the vehicles that suffered the problem. Vin number, build date, car activity when problem occurred etc. and they look for commonality to see if these vehicles were given parts from a certain batch of parts, built within a date range, under a common driving stress when the problem occured, etc. If it is determined the problem can be isolated to a part's batch # used and/or build date, then it can be safely assumed that produced cars outside those are ok.

07-15-2009, 08:54 PM	#452
Malachi Drives: 2010 SS RS - Silver SOON!! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 2	Well, I made it thru much, but no where near all of this thread...going to comment anyway. Please, allow me to preface this with a few facts. 1) I am NOT an engineer (proud to say that. LOL) 2) I am NOT a metallurgist. 3) I spent a little over 2 years dealing w/ GM Powertrain plants, specifically on the raw materials (read: Steel) side. 4) I am currently involved with a company getting ready to launch a transmission. 5) I'm in purchasing Now, IF (note: big if!) this is an issue w/ the output shaft it isn't a GM issue. As previously stated the trans is a purchased component and while this model may be specific to the Camaro, it is a trans from a proven company. Is it the 'cheapest' option? Yeah, knowing GM purchasing, it probably is the cheapest. That does NOT mean it is cheap! Anyway, assuming that the output shaft is sheering/snapping/break under torque (again, just speculation!!) then there is a boatload of research that needs to be done to determine WHY that is the case. Again, assuming it can be narrowed down to JUST the output shaft (not vehicle design related or assembly related or anything else) then they have more questions to answer: Why now? Remember, this car has made it into launch with this trans and some cars have shipped w/o issues and that is a process unto itself! How long has the issue existed? 1 shipment? 2? all of them? What will be taken to contain the issue? In the field? In the factor? In transit? Why now? What changed? In short, this is NOT a fast process!! OK, I'm rambling there. For the sake of argument, I'll say this is 100% an output shaft issue (NOT TRUE UNLESS CONFIRMED BY GM!). So, here's what I know about output shafts. 1) It is probably forged or cast (too many chips on the floor going from solid). 2) It is probably heat treated. 3) Is is precision machined. 4) there is a specific grade of steel called out for manufacturing the shaft Each of those leads to possible issues. Has the supplier of the raw forging or casting changed? Were there micro fractures in the raw material that could lead to stresses in machining causing the breaking? Was the heat treat right? To much heat or too long and it gets brittle and, well, can snap. Too little or too short and it is too soft and can/will twist under torque. Did the machining process cause micro fractures? Where there a radius that was too sharp causing a weak spot? Was the right raw material used? What I know for a fact is this: 1) GM Powertrain will not change a raw material supplier for material going into their plants w/o a full validation run. There is over 100K miles riding on every part in that tranny. 2) When I brought up changing the forging source for my output shaft to my Chief Engineer he got twitchy because it is so sensitive and critical. All we can really do now is wait for a REAL answer from GM and sleep well on the fact that our cars will be RIGHT when they roll into the dealer. Personally, my main source of aggravation is that I have to come to an outside source to get real information on my car status. This is systemic of GM, not your respective dealers. The issue will be corrected, the cars will ship, you will LOVE the drive (I tested a v6, but am waiting on my SS...pre-ordered 10/17/08). I have to finish by thanking EVERYONE here for all the great info! And, now I'll shut up.