i can beat a mustang 2011 with my L99 with this tools?

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by PQ

I can't imagine not doing the LS3 conversion if I'm putting a cam in.

I was basing my thoughts on the assumption that it was just reallized that by aftermarket cam, I was doing the LS3 conversion. VVT sucks. Maybe some would keep it, but now way I do a cam and keep it. The cost is irrelevant. You swap cams on the L99, you do the conversion. Period.

SO, that said, compression will be the same, and crank power will be the same.

I'm only laying down 471/476 at the wheels mainly due to my wheels. But a cam will have me the same crank power as any LS3 with the same mods. There are a thousand configs to use, but my only point is that if a stock L99 and a stock LS3 both did the same cam, they'd have the same crank power. (again, I can't imagine not doing the conversion if yer gonna do a cam anyway)

Has anyone with an L99 done a cam and NOT done the LS3 conversion?

Randy....you can't go wrong either way.

If I was building a strip car, I'd would have bought the L99, LS3 conversioned it, cammed it with a whipple on top. Put in a nice big stall and a set of sticky tires and run 10.X all day long EASY!!!!

But as a toy car that see more street than strip, you can't deny the fun of shifting yourself.

GM could have saved us all alot of headache ( and money ) by simply putting the LS3 in the auto and manual.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

Randy....you can't go wrong either way.

If I was building a strip car, I'd would have bought the L99, LS3 conversioned it, cammed it with a whipple on top. Put in a nice big stall and a set of sticky tires and run 10.X all day long EASY!!!!

But as a toy car that see more street than strip, you can't deny the fun of shifting yourself.

GM could have saved us all alot of headache ( and money ) by simply putting the LS3 in the auto and manual.

Ya, I'm a drag race kinda guy I guess. And don't get me wrong, I do long to row gears sometimes, but I just get in someones car who has them and have a little fun. 10 years of truck driving left me with no desire to shift gears.

I sooooo wanted the whipple, but 3500.00 was too hard to pass on with the Maggie. It should still be cool with the cam when I do it.

At least they should have offered the auto in a true LS3. Wouldn't have been hard. But, when I cam it, I'll be deleting the VVT anyway.

But, for the threads sake, I think the OP is on par with the mods he said he already had.

[SGOS252382]

Originally Posted by PQ

The auto RE gearing makes up for the drivetrain loss. And if you and me put the same aftermarket cam in our cars, we will have the same crank horsepower. Differnece is, if I gained 76 horse power, then you only gained 50 hp. Because it was the cam that had your initial 26 hp advantage. (If we were both still stock that is) But the more compression comes from the bigger cam so they are the same thing.

So sure, we have a drivetrain loss of 3% more on average, but we gain more than that back on the ground by the gearing.

So the real advantage to the LS3 is the cam. And all I'm saying is a simple cam swap and the L99 is ahead.

Stock for stock, the L99 is 3% more drivetrain loss, AND 26 hp down and still only .1 slower on average.

And as we all know a 450 RWHP L99 A6 will destroy a 450 RWHP manual in a race. My car and several other L99s are running low 12s with less than 370 rwhp (what LS3s dyno stock).

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

And as we all know a 450 RWHP L99 A6 will destroy a 450 RWHP manual in a race. My car and several other L99s are running low 12s with less than 370 rwhp (what LS3s dyno stock).

True...in stock form.

The biggest hang up with the LS3 is the launch....throw a set of good tires on it, with axles for peace of mind and the LS3 wins every time.

I foolishly attempted to take a 470 rwhp LS3 to the strip on the P-Zeros....trapped 117 mph but ran 13.1 because my 60' times were 2.4 2.5 with loads of wheel hop.

[Padre]

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

Padre ran something like 12.7s or 12.8s last weekend with just a CAI, Catback, and a Tune in his L99 A6. That could definately beat the average Joe in a 5.0 GT.

12.7 @ 109. There was an '11 GT 5.0 Auto there that would not race me. He might have kept up two weeks ago (13.2) but not now and no looking back. With my lightweight rims and DRs, I fully expect to be sub-12.5 next weekend.

My 12.7 with CAI, cat-back, and A6 tune:

Originally Posted by PQ

Has anyone with an L99 done a cam and NOT done the LS3 conversion?

Plenty, as I read. For many, and for me with this build, the goal isn't max radical power with every mod. I'm making good progress with simple mods and working towards a reachable goal: 11.5. I don't need the most radical stage-3 LS3 cam offered. I can reach my goals with a VVT cam or even an AFM/VVT if I chose not to pop the heads.

When I'm done, only pulley'd Shelby's will keep up with me. And I'll get 22mpg on the way home.

For me, the supercharger waits until I need a cage.

Padre

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

True...in stock form.

The biggest hang up with the LS3 is the launch....throw a set of good tires on it, with axles for peace of mind and the LS3 wins every time.

I foolishly attempted to take a 470 rwhp LS3 to the strip on the P-Zeros....trapped 117 mph but ran 13.1 because my 60' times were 2.4 2.5 with loads of wheel hop.

You'd kill me right now. These wheels are a definite mistake as far as performance. lol

Originally Posted by Padre

12.7 @ 109. There was an '11 GT 5.0 Auto there that would not race me. He might have kept up two weeks ago (13.2) but not now and no looking back. With my lightweight rims and DRs, I fully expect to be sub-12.5 next weekend.

My 12.7 with CAI, cat-back, and A6 tune:



Plenty, as I read. For many, and for me with this build, the goal isn't max radical power with every mod. I'm making good progress with simple mods and working towards a reachable goal: 11.5. I don't need the most radical stage-3 LS3 cam offered. I can reach my goals with a VVT cam or even an AFM/VVT if I chose not to pop the heads.

When I'm done, only pulley'd Shelby's will keep up with me. And I'll get 22mpg on the way home.

For me, the supercharger waits until I need a cage.

Padre

Fair enough.

Apperently more than I thought. For me, I do the conversion. I don't dig moving parts on my cam. lol

Some VVT cams actually have a pin that locks and unlocks lobes together. I believe these ones just rotate to advance and retard timing.

[SGOS252382]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

True...in stock form.

The biggest hang up with the LS3 is the launch....throw a set of good tires on it, with axles for peace of mind and the LS3 wins every time.

I foolishly attempted to take a 470 rwhp LS3 to the strip on the P-Zeros....trapped 117 mph but ran 13.1 because my 60' times were 2.4 2.5 with loads of wheel hop.

Given equal RWHP numbers an automatic will beat a manual.

A 370 RWHP L99 A6 will beat a 370 RWHP LS3 M6 (with or without drag tires). Put Drag Tires on both cars and the L99 A6 will still beat the LS3 M6. How many guys are pulling low 12s (12.2s - 12.3s) in LS3 M6s with 370 RWHP (with or without drag tires)?

But we have quite a few L99 A6s running low 12s with less than 370 RWHP.

[natecydoubleg]

automatic beats manual?
Do you have an automatic? if so this statement make sense...
Nevermind I see you have a tune so you don't have the shift lag in the auto; in that case it would be the drivers racer and reaction time

[SWAT 79]

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

Given equal RWHP numbers an automatic will beat a manual.

I know you know you're shit, and definitely give you your respect. With that said, WE all know, that when you have 2 cars with equal horsepower, neither will DESTROY the other.

It's a drivers race plain and simple, when 2 of the same cars, have the same hp. Now Mod for mod, the manual would have the advantage because it doesn't loose as much horsepower as the automatic.

The only advantages automatic transmissions have are the consistency and ease of use.

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by SWAT 79

The only advantages automatic transmissions have are the consistency and ease of use.

Which is exactly why the auto has an advantage, and a huge one, in drag racing.

[SWAT 79]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

Which is exactly why the auto has an advantage, and a huge one, in drag racing.

Yes, but not in the sense that it's going to provide BETTER times. It will provide more consistent times, and obviously is less dependent on driver skill. But just because a car is more consistent, doesn't make it faster. The point I'm making is that a good driver in a manual can pull the same times in a manual car as they can in an automatic car, it's just requires more skill, and is impossible to do ALL the time. The times, however, will not be any faster or slower because of the consistency.

[SGOS252382]

Originally Posted by SWAT 79

I know you know you're shit, and definitely give you your respect. With that said, WE all know, that when you have 2 cars with equal horsepower, neither will DESTROY the other.

It's a drivers race plain and simple, when 2 of the same cars, have the same hp. Now Mod for mod, the manual would have the advantage because it doesn't loose as much horsepower as the automatic.

The only advantages automatic transmissions have are the consistency and ease of use.

I think we're getting RWHP and Flywheel hp confused. Don't forget an automatic will need to make significantly more Flywheel hp to be equal in RWHP.

An L99 A6 needs an intake, long tube headers, and a tune just to make 360 rwhp or so. Most stock LS3s are already making 360+ rwhp stock. But an L99 A6 with intake, headers, and a tune will beat a stock LS3 pretty much everytime in a race.

A good example is the 5.0 Mustang GT. It has the same engine as the manual (same flywheel hp - but less RWHP), but it runs every bit as fast in the 1/4 mile (actually faster). Because its an automatic it makes less RWHP than the manual. It runs just as fast or faster at the track with less RWHP. Just imagine if the automatic 5.0 GT made the same RWHP on a dyno as the manaul.
What car do you think would be faster in a 1/4 mile with the same RWHP.

I've owned lots of cars (manuals and automatics). Automatics have a nice advantage with similar RWHP (not flywheel hp) as a manaul.

And throw a converter into the mix and its not even a debate. Automatics can run ridiculously fast times with very low RWHP numbers.

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

And throw a converter into the mix and its not even a debate. Automatics can run ridiculously fast times with very low RWHP numbers.

This is a fact.

With a good trans tune, a nice stall and a set of sticky tires an automatic can lay down some eye popping ETs.

The biggest reason I went LS3 was because I knew I was keeping the car NA and the cam/head work would be much easier on the LS3. I love my manual on the street as it's an insane amount of fun, but when I'm at the strip there are times I wish I had the automatic just to be able to run the number every single pass.

[SWAT 79]

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

I think we're getting RWHP and Flywheel hp confused. Don't forget an automatic will need to make significantly more Flywheel hp to be equal in RWHP.

An L99 A6 needs an intake, long tube headers, and a tune just to make 360 rwhp or so. Most stock LS3s are already making 360+ rwhp stock. But an L99 A6 with intake, headers, and a tune will beat a stock LS3 pretty much everytime in a race.

A good example is the 5.0 Mustang GT. It has the same engine as the manual (same flywheel hp - but less RWHP), but it runs every bit as fast in the 1/4 mile (actually faster). Because its an automatic it makes less RWHP than the manual. It runs just as fast or faster at the track with less RWHP. Just imagine if the automatic 5.0 GT made the same RWHP on a dyno as the manaul.
What car do you think would be faster in a 1/4 mile with the same RWHP.

I've owned lots of cars (manuals and automatics). Automatics have a nice advantage with similar RWHP (not flywheel hp) as a manaul.

And throw a converter into the mix and its not even a debate. Automatics can run ridiculously fast times with very low RWHP numbers.

All good points, but at least over on the mustang forums, the manual 5.0's with mods, are running low low 12s, right there with the automatics (they're more or less the same performers, stock and modded).

I know exactly what you're saying now, I thought you meant mod for mod (which would equate to a horsepower advantage for the manual cars) rather then the RWHP to RWHP. Let me ask you then, would there be any difference from a roll when you have equal whp manual and automatic cars?