CAI: K&N or Cold Air Inductions?

[Zoneblitz3]

Originally Posted by axis

It all depends on what you consider "significant". My Halltech yellowjacket gives a independently documented significant performance increase (12-14whp), doesn't relocate the washer bottle, has never popped a CEL in over 3yrs of owning it, is a oiled filter (flows better than dry), zero MAF issues, has a HUGE velocity stack, and is all one piece composite intake tube (inreases laminar flow).

Compare your intake to mine, then tell me which one would give more significant performance gains. It's all about perspective.

I'm not trying to compare mine to yours. I know nothing about yours. "Significant" is versus stock, and no, I don't know what a real dyno says, but my butt-dyno says it can feel a "significant" difference in responsiveness, sound, and acceleration. I am not trying to compare it any other CAI. I am saying that compared to the stock intake I am very pleased, and have had no CELs, did not have a complicated install (washer bottle relocation), and no MAF sensor concerns due to dry filament.

[Camarojt]

Originally Posted by axis

No one is saying that the ADM is a bad unit. I too think it's a quality CAI with good construction. I just smile when the IAT sensor movement comes up. I can buy a $25 resistor kit off ebay that will let me change the IAT's to whatever I want. The point is, i'd rather have my PCM fuel for the IAT's as GM has written them in the programming. I prefer to get my IAT's down the old fashion way, by supplying it the coldest air possible. When you've been here as long as I and many others, you've seen the threads were people weren't happy with pretty much every product on Camaro5. That goes for ADM as well. They've just made a resurgence lately.

Ok fair enough, we agree that the ADM is a quality unit, but you have your opinion on the MAF placement not helping, and I have my opinion that it does help performance.
Getting the coldest air possible actually has nothing to do with the MAF.
It has to do with where you pull the air from, how well the air box is constructed to keep heat from the engine out (this unit is as tightly sealed as they come), and lastly how much of a change in temperature the air makes as it travels thru the tube.
If you are street driving and it is maybe 80 degrees outside, and you pull up to a long red light, your engine compartment will begin to heat up and fast. That pipe that your air travels thru is exposed to this heat, and so is your MAF sensor! The air traveling thru the tube is now AFFECTED by several degrees and your ECM is reading this temp rise. Same thing happens at the track in the staging lanes and also while your doing your burnout and then the 5-10 sec that you are idling before the lights turn green.

In these same situations the ADM is not heat soaking Bc it's not reading the temp in the pipe. It's as tho it was still cruising in ambient air. It drops no timing Bc of this.
To me this is simple to understand.
Idk if you could or couldn't buy a $25 resistor kit off of eBay to do the same thing. But lets say you could do that? Why on earth would a person buy a cheap eBay resistor when a reputable company like ADM put in the R&R and handed you a work of art that does it for you? So you can save $75 and possibly have an piece of EBAY crap go bad on you?

Yes there has been a resurgence of the ADM intakes coming back lately. They would be equally as popular if Andy pushed them everyday like other vendors do but he doesn't. Matter of fact you rarely see him on the forum at all unless it talking about a bigger hp build like a TT set up. I started letting people know what it did to my car, and others are taking notice.
That's the only reason more people own CAI inc is Bc for the last few years, just about every vendor there is was pushing the shit out of them. They are also a good intake.

Watch and see this year what happens to the bolt on fast list. I will bet that 3 out of 5 of the fastest l99 times will all be running an ADM intake w/scoop.
Why??? BC THEY FLAT OUT PERFORM!

[Denis]

Originally Posted by Camarojt

Ok fair enough, we agree that the ADM is a quality unit, but you have your opinion on the MAF placement not helping, and I have my opinion that it does help performance.
Getting the coldest air possible actually has nothing to do with the MAF.
It has to do with where you pull the air from, how well the air box is constructed to keep heat from the engine out (this unit is as tightly sealed as they come), and lastly how much of a change in temperature the air makes as it travels thru the tube.
If you are street driving and it is maybe 80 degrees outside, and you pull up to a long red light, your engine compartment will begin to heat up and fast. That pipe that your air travels thru is exposed to this heat, and so is your MAF sensor! The air traveling thru the tube is now AFFECTED by several degrees and your ECM is reading this temp rise. Same thing happens at the track in the staging lanes and also while your doing your burnout and then the 5-10 sec that you are idling before the lights turn green.

In these same situations the ADM is not heat soaking Bc it's not reading the temp in the pipe. It's as tho it was still cruising in ambient air. It drops no timing Bc of this.
To me this is simple to understand.
Idk if you could or couldn't buy a $25 resistor kit off of eBay to do the same thing. But lets say you could do that? Why on earth would a person buy a cheap eBay resistor when a reputable company like ADM put in the R&R and handed you a work of art that does it for you? So you can save $75 and possibly have an piece of EBAY crap go bad on you?

Yes there has been a resurgence of the ADM intakes coming back lately. They would be equally as popular if Andy pushed them everyday like other vendors do but he doesn't. Matter of fact you rarely see him on the forum at all unless it talking about a bigger hp build like a TT set up. I started letting people know what it did to my car, and others are taking notice.
That's the only reason more people own CAI inc is Bc for the last few years, just about every vendor there is was pushing the shit out of them. They are also a good intake.

Watch and see this year what happens to the bolt on fast list. I will bet that 3 out of 5 of the fastest l99 times will all be running an ADM intake w/scoop.
Why??? BC THEY FLAT OUT PERFORM!

Originally Posted by Camarojt

It all boils down to this, ADM is a top notch CAI! Whether or not it makes more power is an almost unprovable point. As you said before, all someone has to do is dispute the test that they don't like.
I personally love the design, the looks, the performance, and the MAF placement.

Ok, all intake pipes heat soak under certain conditions? Agree?? Doesn't matter what brand. Some more than others.

So it's safe to say that if the air temp can be changed even some from location in the
(a. air box) vs as it travels thru the tube and it's read there in the
(b. stock location) then it's possible that by having the MAF in the air box it will read a lower air temp.

It doesn't CHANGE the temp of the air going in the tube. That temp is gonna be what its gonna be regardless of where the MAF is.

If its ambient in the box, then the computer reads that temp as ambient and not the 2,3,4 or 6 degrees hotter temps inside the hot tube.

Call it fooling the computer or call it a better way of tuning. The end result is better power due to timing not being pulled Bc of heat soak.

Timing is way more important than how accurate the air/fuel mixture being a tad rich is on these motors.

Will it outperform another type of CAI like the Halltech? I think it's possible YES but it's splitting hairs. One thing that cannot be disputed is the durability of the ADM intake. It is lightweight but tight as a drum!
There are no unhappy ADM intake owners that I've heard of. However I have heard that about other brands not satisfying the buyers.
Most people just like what they bought.

But there seems to be so much attention to whether or not the MAF in the airbox makes a difference.
Lets assume it makes no difference?
Then you end up with a CAI that's still built damn good, performs damn good, and can still be used if you wanna go supercharged later without having to start all over.

all of this!

im not sure how this thread turned into a discussion about ADM but ill bite.

The location of the Maf/iat sensor has nothing to do with "tricking" the computer into thinking the air is colder than it actually is. its actually telling the computer what the TRUE number is due to its proximity to the air filter. the air enters the filter and hits the maf/ait sensor and that the actual temp of the incoming air. it hasn’t been heated by the tube in the engine compartment, its accurate. and therefore the car inst pulling timing unnecessarily and robbing power for no reason.

so when I’m in the staging lanes and the cars are getting hot, i know mine isn’t pulling timing and killing my ET's because the tube is heat soaked. id be willing to bet that that sensor gets heat soaked too. so have fun with it sitting right behind your radiator fans. i personally am happy that its away from a heat source.



back on topic!

[Camarojt]

Dennis you are correct, the MAF is reading the accurate temp at the filter location. What Axis is saying is that the temp of the air as it travels thru the tube can now be inaccurate due to heat soak but the MAF won't know it Bc it's already read the temp in the box.
So in a sense, it is strategically accomplishing not having timing pulled. That is the primary reason for the design.

A person that disagrees with this theory has that right, but also when no other CAI to my knowledge does this with the MAF, then it's easy to defend what theirs does being in the stock location.

All I say is LINE EM UP!!

[Denis]

Originally Posted by Camarojt

Dennis you are correct, the MAF is reading the accurate temp at the filter location. What Axis is saying is that the temp of the air as it travels thru the tube can now be inaccurate due to heat soak but the MAF won't know it Bc it's already read the temp in the box.
So in a sense, it is strategically accomplishing not having timing pulled. That is the primary reason for the design.

A person that disagrees with this theory has that right, but also when no other CAI to my knowledge does this with the MAF, then it's easy to defend what theirs does being in the stock location.

All I say is LINE EM UP!!

I'm always down for that!

[axis]

Originally Posted by Zoneblitz3

I'm not trying to compare mine to yours. I know nothing about yours. "Significant" is versus stock, and no, I don't know what a real dyno says, but my butt-dyno says it can feel a "significant" difference in responsiveness, sound, and acceleration. I am not trying to compare it any other CAI. I am saying that compared to the stock intake I am very pleased, and have had no CELs, did not have a complicated install (washer bottle relocation), and no MAF sensor concerns due to dry filament.

Butt dynometers have been banned on Camaro5. Unless you can show the calibration sheet and margin of error, we'd appreciate it if you didn't mention it again.

Originally Posted by Camarojt

Dennis you are correct, the MAF is reading the accurate temp at the filter location. What Axis is saying is that the temp of the air as it travels thru the tube can now be inaccurate due to heat soak but the MAF won't know it Bc it's already read the temp in the box.
So in a sense, it is strategically accomplishing not having timing pulled. That is the primary reason for the design.

A person that disagrees with this theory has that right, but also when no other CAI to my knowledge does this with the MAF, then it's easy to defend what theirs does being in the stock location.

All I say is LINE EM UP!!

That is exactly what i'm saying. I can understand the reasoning behind putting the IAT sensor there but i've yet to see any actual proof that does anything useful. It would seem that if it made that much of a difference, others would have incorporated into their design. Who knows. We all like our choices and will defend them for the reasons we bought them. In the end, that's all that really matters.

[thahemp]

And my fastlane still makes the most power of all of them! Unfortunately that is offset by horrible... HORRIBLE heat soak. Pick your poison gentlemen and move on to something that makes more than 12HP.

[axis]

Originally Posted by thahemp

And my fastlane still makes the most power of all of them! Unfortunately that is offset by horrible... HORRIBLE heat soak. Pick your poison gentlemen and move on to something that makes more than 12HP.

LTS, and LFC's FTW.

[thahemp]

Damn right! Throw in a set of UHC's and you're livin the K&N life. Booyah.

[Mchlgrrsn]

Don't forget octane reducer ... FTW

[thahemp]

Now you're thinking. Line up backwards. Cause massive detonation, and slam it in reverse. Ride the wave baby. Ride the wave.

[litle88]

That happened at Camaro fest! A guy got on the water box, backed up a Lil foot braked it spun wheels in REVERSE! Let go of the brake a Lil and the car started to shoot back lol. It was some funny shiat!

[litle88]

He also had a K&N air filter lol

[thahemp]

Originally Posted by litle88

That happened at Camaro fest! A guy got on the water box, backed up a Lil foot braked it spun wheels in REVERSE! Let go of the brake a Lil and the car started to shoot back lol. It was some funny shiat!

Originally Posted by litle88

He also had a K&N air filter lol

Haha. Underhead cams take a little getting used to. It happens to the best of us.