2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT 500 650 HP! How will it stack up against the ZL1?

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by HEMI DAVE

I agree......they would of been better off with a sick 1/4 mile time than ring time..........

1/4 mile is what it's all about with these car's.......

For many with "these cars" it's not all about the 1/4 mile. In fact, for many the 1/4 mile is relatively boring. Many prefer to take "these cars" on road courses, and twisty roads. One of little things to which I look forward, which has nothing to do with the 1/4 mile, is driving my ZL1 convertible down Highway 1 along the coast in Big Sur on a warm sunny Saturday afternoon on the way to Sierra Mar for lunch.

[Uneducated Guess]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

For many with "these cars" it's not all about the 1/4 mile. In fact, for many the 1/4 mile is relatively boring. Many prefer to take "these cars" on road courses, and twisty roads. One of little things to which I look forward, which has nothing to do with the 1/4 mile, is driving my ZL1 convertible down Highway 1 along the coast in Big Sur on a warm sunny Saturday afternoon on the way to Sierra Mar for lunch.

I know, for me, that I'm going to enjoy being thrown back in the seat when I get on the gas pedal. 1/4 doesn't mean much to me. Just the pure thrill of the acceleration. and to get that from the most powerful production camaro ever made just makes it that much better.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by tomsws6

Its real easy to get caught up in this debate. The mustang wont be able to put the power to the ground, ZL1 needs more power to compete, 200mph is gonna smoke the Z, the Z can put a smaller pully on the lsa and will run with it ect ect but niether one of them is even out yet so we can say all we want but until theres a comparo it dont mean jack. Were all just bench racin.



gotta admit I cant keep out of it either! Smaller pully and a tune with cup tires and it will dominate the gt500 like shes a little girl with one less lollypop!

doing that is just enough to keep pace with the current GT500 which becomes a different monster with smaller pulleys, tune, and drag tires. You don't believe me, go read on it. With your mentality, what do you think happens when the new GT500 does the same pulley and tune mod?

At this point, we don't even know how the ZL1 stacks up to the current GT500 which is no slouch by any means and the published rolling times for the ZL1 are very close to the current GT500 standing start times. A stock '11 & '12 GT500 with SVT package, whips the 911s, M3s, and CTS-Vs of this world....bet not many here know that. A lot of you make so many ignorant statements about the GT500 and lofty predictions for the ZL1. Let's just all wait and see. This is how I see it.

ZL1 wins = fanboys rejoice and talk crap. True car enthusiasts will say, great job GM.

ZL1 loses = fanboys will say "but it still looks better". True car enthusiasts will say, "Doesn't matter. Nice job GM and Ford for bringing us awesome cars."

same can be said about the Mustang fanboys.

[VenomInside]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

doing that is just enough to keep pace with the current GT500 which is known to respond very well to smaller pulleys and a tune. With your mentality, what do you think happens when the new GT500 does the same pulley and tune mod?

At this point, we don't even know how the ZL1 stacks up to the current GT500 which is no slouch by any means and the published rolling times for the ZL1 are very close to the current GT500 standing start times. A lot of you make so many ignorant statements about the GT500 and lofty predictions for the ZL1. Let's just all wait and see. This is how I see it.

ZL1 wins = fanboys rejoice and talk crap. True car enthusiasts will say, great job GM.

ZL1 loses = fanboys will say "but it still looks better". True car enthusiasts will say, "Doesn't matter. Nice job GM and Ford for bringing us awesome cars."

same can be said about the Mustang fanboys.

This x 1000

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Rock36

I'm pretty sure he is referring to the additional engine oil, tranny, and diff coolers, not just the "upgraded" trans and diff.

And I'm pretty sure that if Ford made significant efforts to cut weight in other areas, they would have advertised that too. Why would they remain quiet on weight saving measures? That would be another great selling point if it were true.

I believe 3850lbs is what a base GT500 will weigh without options. What all the performance package options will add to that in the end is anybody's guess.

I agree that the quoted weight is very likely the base model and the extra cooling options will add some weight. However, just throwing Ford's quoted weight out the window and assuming it weighs over 300 lbs more than that well. . . unless the extra oil cooler and the suspension are made of bricks of iron I doubt it's going to weigh 4150+ pounds. Added weight in the cooling system could easily be offset by the driveshaft and lightening the wheel options. We also don't know the weight of the 5.8 vs the 5.4. The weight difference between GT and GT500 is less than 300 lbs with a physically larger engine, a supercharger, intercooling system, bigger brakes, transmission, beefier axle, etc; so you're going to have to add a LOT to pick up that much weight. It's not like Ford said the car was going to weigh slightly more than the current car and the rest is conjecture, they said specifically that the car is going to weigh 3850 and I see no reason to assume they are lying. The driveshaft alone is going to shave off at least 25 lbs+, wheels may be lighter, seats may be lighter, etc. We just don't know yet, all we know is they said it's going to weigh 3850 lbs.

Originally Posted by newmoon

So your going to take a car that is already traction limited to where the average times for 11 and 12 models are 12:30s and your going to add another 100 hp, new suspension, upgraded axle, upgraded differential, taller gearing, upgraded traction control, launch control, and more torque to it and pick up a full second? Have you payed attention to any of the GT500 tests outside of MM&FF? My neighbor has a GT500 that is so traction limited the best he can run is 8:60 in the 1/8, he spins completely through 1st and 2nd. This new 500 will have 150hp more than his model. This thing better have a hell of a traction control system.

It's not just the same car with 100 more horsepower. Of course, it is still probably going to have major traction issues like any car with that much power and rwd will have, but it will surely stick better than the current car would at similar power levels.

[Rice Killer]

When is Ford releasing it's numbers and price?

You would think that if they were so much better than Chevy's, they would have released them yesterday with the rest. But no, they knew there 200 mph, 650 hp would steal Chevy's thunder. I don't think any of there numbers are going to be much better, if any better than Chevy's and that's why they were not released. The real test will be when these two beasts are released but would still like to know Ford's numbers.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

I agree that the quoted weight is very likely the base model and the extra cooling options will add some weight. However, just throwing Ford's quoted weight out the window and assuming it weighs over 300 lbs more than that well. . . unless the extra oil cooler and the suspension are made of bricks of iron I doubt it's going to weigh 4150+ pounds. Added weight in the cooling system could easily be offset by the driveshaft and lightening the wheel options. It's not like Ford said the car was going to weigh slightly more than the current car and the rest is conjecture, they said the car is going to weigh 3850 and I see no reason to assume they are lying. The driveshaft alone is going to shave off at least 25 lbs+, wheels may be lighter, seats may be lighter, etc. We just don't know yet, all we know is they said it's going to weigh 3850 lbs.

Ford did say stronger tranny case, stronger diff case and more. The 1969 Shelby had far more motor than chassis. If Ford just stuffs a 650HP motor in the same car it will be 1969 all over again. They won't do that. They will do the Mustang right and that will increase the weight. I said it before and I'll say it again. The 2013 650 will be closer in weight to the ZL1 than most think. If my crystal ball is cracked, feel free to throw it in my face and laugh about this time next year.

[lil_red_v6]

its nice to know they want the same style exhaust as we have for the zl1. they way the tips are cut and all.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Ford did say stronger tranny case, stronger diff case and more. The 1969 Shelby had far more motor than chassis. If Ford just stuffs a 650HP motor in the same car it will be 1969 all over again. They won't do that. They will do the Mustang right and that will increase the weight. I said it before and I'll say it again. The 2013 650 will be closer in weight to the ZL1 than most think. If my crystal ball is cracked, feel free to throw it in my face and laugh about this time next year.

That's true they are going to have to add some heavier components, but there are also many places where weight can easily be saved on the gt500 and the fact that they quoted a specific weight for the car leads me to believe they took advantage of this. I have a feeling we will see official specs in the next few weeks anyway, so we'll see. I can't wait to see these cars (ZL1 and this one) out on the track. I will have my 3076r setup going in right about the time these cars hit the street, so it will be interesting to see how well, or not so well, I fare on track.

[lil_red_v6]

i dont think they are going to hit 650. thats just me. i callin thier bluff

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by rez333

The stock two-piece driveshaft is 45-50lbs. The CF driveshaft is around 11-14lbs. Do your research before confusing speculation with fact.

I did check for an example online, but apparently the internet lied to me.

If I can lose 20+ pounds of reciprocating weight, I'll cough up a grand for a CF driveshaft & maybe some half axles as well.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Scarrzz

I did check for an example online, but apparently the internet lied to me.

If I can lose 20+ pounds of reciprocating weight, I'll cough up a grand for a CF driveshaft & maybe some half axles as well.

You may be able to. How heavy is the stock camaro's driveshaft? The mustang's is a joke. It has a huge balance weight on it and weighs 40+ lbs. If yours is that heavy too then a CF driveshaft would be a great idea, but costly.

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by lil_red_v6

i dont think they are going to hit 650. thats just me. i callin thier bluff

What makes you say that?

The 2011-2012 GT500 made 550HP out of a less efficient 5.4 Liter motor. Now they are increasing the motor to a 5.8, slapping a bigger and more efficient blower, adding a lot of cooling modifications, etc.

[VenomInside]

Originally Posted by lil_red_v6

i dont think they are going to hit 650. thats just me. i callin thier bluff