2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT 500 650 HP! How will it stack up against the ZL1?

[8cd03gro]

You're right, didn't see the one the post you quoted was in response to. With your inclination to assume Ford won't make the power they claim you can see how one would assume those were your views, especially since the original, "lil girl" statement was not in the post you quoted.

[lil_red_v6]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

You're right, didn't see the one the post you quoted was in response to. With your inclination to assume Ford won't make the power they claim you can see how one would assume those were your views, especially since the original, "lil girl" statement was not in the post you quoted.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by HPT BANDIT

Here you go
http://www.vmptuning.com/store/index...=392&parent=88

What is VERY wrong with this picture?

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

What is VERY wrong with this picture?

They installed the driveshaft wrong because it is super clean compared to the rest of the undercarriage.

[lil_red_v6]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

What is VERY wrong with this picture?

lol hmmm well umm if i could put umm. ill keep quiet family forum.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Grabber

They installed the driveshaft wrong because it is super clean compared to the rest of the undercarriage.

Originally Posted by lil_red_v6

lol hmmm well umm if i could put umm. ill keep quiet family forum.

Building an automobile is not as easy as bolting on really high quality parts. You have to understand how all these parts work. You have to know what the operational limitations of the individual components are.

When laminated carbon fibre gets hot, the resin gets soft. A CF driveshaft as installed would be fine for drag passes, but would be exposed to far too much heat on a road course. The exhaust should have been re-routed or coated and wrapped for thermal management. My point is that a bunch of really great parts do not make for a great car. The devil is always found in the details.

GM has done an amazing job with the ZL1. This is not too say Ford has not done the same with the upcoming GT500. I don't have the same relationship with Ford that I enjoy with GM. I would hope they have made quite a few upgrades to typical Mustang to handle the additional power. A 200 MPH top speed in a car designed around a six cylinder budget friendly car does not inspire confidence. The guys over at SVT know what I know and I hope far more about the Mustang chassis dynamics. We'll all see how the ZL1 and new GT500 drive when they get into production. If they are both done right, American Muscle just moved to a level never before seen.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

What is VERY wrong with this picture?

Looks angled...

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

Looks angled...

Exposure of the CF driveshaft to exhaust heat.

[adamgl]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

doing that is just enough to keep pace with the current GT500 which becomes a different monster with smaller pulleys, tune, and drag tires. You don't believe me, go read on it. With your mentality, what do you think happens when the new GT500 does the same pulley and tune mod?

At this point, we don't even know how the ZL1 stacks up to the current GT500 which is no slouch by any means and the published rolling times for the ZL1 are very close to the current GT500 standing start times. A stock '11 & '12 GT500 with SVT package, whips the 911s, M3s, and CTS-Vs of this world....bet not many here know that. A lot of you make so many ignorant statements about the GT500 and lofty predictions for the ZL1. Let's just all wait and see. This is how I see it.

ZL1 wins = fanboys rejoice and talk crap. True car enthusiasts will say, great job GM.

ZL1 loses = fanboys will say "but it still looks better". True car enthusiasts will say, "Doesn't matter. Nice job GM and Ford for bringing us awesome cars."

same can be said about the Mustang fanboys.

So they finally made a good engine. Lets see what the car does on a road course. Look at the cars the ZL1 beat or is within a second of around the ring. Lots of $200,000 to $300,000 cars. http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

36. Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 7:40.00 161 '06 640 / 1805 Auto Bild Sportscars
37. McLaren Mercedes SLR 7:40.00 161 '03 626 / 1693 Auto Bild
38. Porsche 911 GT3 7:40.00 161 '09 435 / 1376 Walter Rohrl
39. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:40.00 161 '11 400 / 1415 Porsche
40. Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1 7:41.27 161 '11 558 / 0 GM
41. Porsche 911 GT3 7:42.00 161 '06 415 / 1395 Walter Rohrl
42. Radical SR3 7:42.00 161 '02 205 / 495
43. Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 SuperVeloce 7:42.00 161 '09 670 / 1664 Sport Auto
44. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7:42.90 160 '05 513 / 1437 Jan Magnussen
45. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:43.00 160 '03 381 / 1360 Motor
46. Pagani Zonda C12 S 7:44.00 160 '02 555 / 1250 Sport Auto
47. Audi R8 V10 5.2 FSI 7:44.00 160 '09 525 / 1620 Sport Auto
48. Mercedes CLK 63 Black Series 7:45.00 159 '07 507 / 1745 Berndt Schneider
49. Gardner Douglas GD T70 Spyder 7:45.00 159 '10 710 / 900 Dario Margutti
50. Porsche 911 GT2 7:46.00 159 '00 460 / 1430 Sport Auto
51. Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera 7:46.00 159 '07 530 / 1520 Auto
52. Jaguar XJ220 7:46.37 159 '92 549 / 1470 John Nielsen
53. Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano 7:47.00 159 '06 620 / 1748 Sport Auto
54. Wiesmann GT MF5 7:47.00 159 '08 507 / 1380 Sport Auto
55. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:47.00 159 '09 500 / 1570 Sport Auto
56. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:48.00 158 '06 415 / 1375 Sport Auto
57. BMW M3 GTS 7:48.00 158 '10 450 / 1543 Sport Auto
58. Lamborghini Murcielago 7:50.00 158 '02 580 / 1800 Sport Auto
59. BMW M3 CSL 7:50.00 158 '03 360 / 1385 Sport Auto 60. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:50.00 158 '08 385 / 1425
61. Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series 7:51.00 157 '09 670 / 1870 Sport Auto 62. Lamborghini Gallardo 7:52.00 157 '03 500 / 1613 Sport Auto
63. Ford GT 7:52.00 157 '04 550 / 1538 Sport Auto
64. Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 7:52.00 157 '08 560 / 1530 Sport Auto
65. Mercedes CLK DTM 7:54.00 156 '04 582 / 1678 Sport Auto
66. Porsche 911 GT3 7:54.00 156 '03 380 / 1380 Sport Auto
67. Ferrari F430 7:55.00 156 '05 489 / 1450 Sport Auto

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Exposure of the CF driveshaft to exhaust heat.

Ohhhhhh... Gotcha.. Yeah, not really up on the whole CF thing... I guess our shielding is kind of a good thing then..

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

Ohhhhhh... Gotcha.. Yeah, not really up on the whole CF thing... I guess our shielding is kind of a good thing then..

It is. That said, I would use aluminum. It is less sensitive to heat and close to the same result.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Building an automobile is not as easy as bolting on really high quality parts. You have to understand how all these parts work. You have to know what the operational limitations of the individual components are.

When laminated carbon fibre gets hot, the resin gets soft. A CF driveshaft as installed would be fine for drag passes, but would be exposed to far too much heat on a road course. The exhaust should have been re-routed or coated and wrapped for thermal management. My point is that a bunch of really great parts do not make for a great car. The devil is always found in the details.

GM has done an amazing job with the ZL1. This is not too say Ford has not done the same with the upcoming GT500. I don't have the same relationship with Ford that I enjoy with GM. I would hope they have made quite a few upgrades to typical Mustang to handle the additional power. A 200 MPH top speed in a car designed around a six cylinder budget friendly car does not inspire confidence. The guys over at SVT know what I know and I hope far more about the Mustang chassis dynamics. We'll all see how the ZL1 and new GT500 drive when they get into production. If they are both done right, American Muscle just moved to a level never before seen.

You're killing me. Based on the surface, your comments seem to suggest that the engineers at Ford are somehow inferior to the engineers at GM. Likely, many of them attended the same schools and have similar backgrounds. In fact, it even likely that many have them have been employed at both GM and Ford in their work history! To suggest that in their zeal to create a better SVT product they forgot or were not smart enough to sweat the details makes you come off as petty and biased. Just my observation.

And that's not even a picture of the 2013 GT500, it's some aftermarket cf driveshaft on some owners car. Do you even know if the driveshaft on the 2013 has/does not have shielding similar to what your suggesting?

[Grabber]

So, apparently CF is not heat resistant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_(fiber)

The properties of carbon fibers, such as high flexibility, high tensile strength, low weight, high resistance, high temperature tolerance and low thermal expansion, make them very popular in aerospace, civil engineering, military, and motorsports, along with other competition sports. However, they are relatively expensive when compared to similar fibers, such as glass fibers or plastic fibers.

[toilets]

Originally Posted by adamgl

So they finally made a good engine. Lets see what the car does on a road course. Look at the cars the ZL1 beat or is within a second of around the ring. Lots of $200,000 to $300,000 cars. http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

36. Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 7:40.00 161 '06 640 / 1805 Auto Bild Sportscars
37. McLaren Mercedes SLR 7:40.00 161 '03 626 / 1693 Auto Bild
38. Porsche 911 GT3 7:40.00 161 '09 435 / 1376 Walter Rohrl
39. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:40.00 161 '11 400 / 1415 Porsche
40. Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1 7:41.27 161 '11 558 / 0 GM
41. Porsche 911 GT3 7:42.00 161 '06 415 / 1395 Walter Rohrl
42. Radical SR3 7:42.00 161 '02 205 / 495
43. Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 SuperVeloce 7:42.00 161 '09 670 / 1664 Sport Auto
44. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7:42.90 160 '05 513 / 1437 Jan Magnussen
45. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:43.00 160 '03 381 / 1360 Motor
46. Pagani Zonda C12 S 7:44.00 160 '02 555 / 1250 Sport Auto
47. Audi R8 V10 5.2 FSI 7:44.00 160 '09 525 / 1620 Sport Auto
48. Mercedes CLK 63 Black Series 7:45.00 159 '07 507 / 1745 Berndt Schneider
49. Gardner Douglas GD T70 Spyder 7:45.00 159 '10 710 / 900 Dario Margutti
50. Porsche 911 GT2 7:46.00 159 '00 460 / 1430 Sport Auto
51. Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera 7:46.00 159 '07 530 / 1520 Auto
52. Jaguar XJ220 7:46.37 159 '92 549 / 1470 John Nielsen
53. Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano 7:47.00 159 '06 620 / 1748 Sport Auto
54. Wiesmann GT MF5 7:47.00 159 '08 507 / 1380 Sport Auto
55. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:47.00 159 '09 500 / 1570 Sport Auto
56. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:48.00 158 '06 415 / 1375 Sport Auto
57. BMW M3 GTS 7:48.00 158 '10 450 / 1543 Sport Auto
58. Lamborghini Murcielago 7:50.00 158 '02 580 / 1800 Sport Auto
59. BMW M3 CSL 7:50.00 158 '03 360 / 1385 Sport Auto 60. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:50.00 158 '08 385 / 1425
61. Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series 7:51.00 157 '09 670 / 1870 Sport Auto 62. Lamborghini Gallardo 7:52.00 157 '03 500 / 1613 Sport Auto
63. Ford GT 7:52.00 157 '04 550 / 1538 Sport Auto
64. Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 7:52.00 157 '08 560 / 1530 Sport Auto
65. Mercedes CLK DTM 7:54.00 156 '04 582 / 1678 Sport Auto
66. Porsche 911 GT3 7:54.00 156 '03 380 / 1380 Sport Auto
67. Ferrari F430 7:55.00 156 '05 489 / 1450 Sport Auto

But, if you sort by year and compare 2010-11 cars its amongts the slowest. only notables it beat would be a M3 and a M5 and a cayman.

Stirrrrrrring the pot a bit, LOL but seriously its an amazing time.