Volt potentially mechanically driven

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Here is a graphic Motor Trend showing how it all works together:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/e...cks/index.html

As I think through this, I can see exactly why it was done. GM very carefully worded their press release about this, again with the goal of misleading us. There is a mechanical link between the engine and wheels: engine -> generator -> planetary gearset -> wheels. It is not a direct link as the generator is stuck in there compared to how a car normally opperates. But there has to be a mechanical link because of regenerative braking. With regen, the most logical setup would be to have the wheels driving the generator. Well, if you have wheels->planetary->generator and engine->generator ... you've got a mechanical pathway from the engine to the wheels. Now, at some point they realized the potential use of this and figured out a way to implement 'partial mechanical' driving mode to boost efficiency.

From an engineering perspective, its all very clever and they should be applauded for it. But it also goes against what we've been led to believe about the Volt, particularly since they started calling it an EV. I can't believe that the engineers were doing this while their PR and media people had no clue. GM has to be more competent than that.


But you could also drive it without ever plugging it in.

And you could also drive it without ever putting a drop of gas in it. right?

granted, only 40 miles a day but still. you Could drive it and never put any gas in it.

Like I said earlier, perspective is what it is. if you wanna hang GM for not being able to effectively articulate an extremely complicated and advanced capability to the average consumer then so be it.

This does not diminish the capability in any way.

[DevilKnightFalcon]

Originally Posted by Hylton

and just to add to DG's comments above, we both think GM's Volt is technically far, far superior to anything else out there.

http://jalopnik.com/5661051/how-gm-l...e-electric-car

http://jalopnik.com/5661817/chevy-vo...and-statistics

I would like to believe that the Volt is technically superior however the bottom line is it is still just a hybrid and if these early rumors and reports are true that the car is only getting around 40mpg in the city then it is not even a very good hybrid. With that said I am waiting on official reviews before making final judgement but honestly if this car gets anything less than 80mpg I will be quite disappointed given all the hype (and claimed 230mpg)

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by DevilKnightFalcon

http://jalopnik.com/5661051/how-gm-l...e-electric-car

http://jalopnik.com/5661817/chevy-vo...and-statistics

I would like to believe that the Volt is technically superior however the bottom line is it is still just a hybrid and if these early rumors and reports are true that the car is only getting around 40mpg in the city then it is not even a very good hybrid. With that said I am waiting on official reviews before making final judgement but honestly if this car gets anything less than 80mpg I will be quite disappointed given all the hype (and claimed 230mpg)

Again. the Volt is a bit of a quandry due to it's multi mode of operations.

For example. My round trip to and from work is right at 50 miles.

So I could not make my commute with no gas. I'd have to get gas at some point. but only for 10 miles a day. the other 40 are from the batteries.


so what would my MPG be... closer to 230 than 80 I'm sure.

If you never charge the batteries and only use the ICE, then yes. it is marginal at best.


The EPA, estimated the volt's mpg at 230, not GM. And they had to guess at what the average consumer's utilization of both the ICE and pure battery power would be in order to estimate the MPG.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by DevilKnightFalcon

http://jalopnik.com/5661051/how-gm-l...e-electric-car

http://jalopnik.com/5661817/chevy-vo...and-statistics

I would like to believe that the Volt is technically superior however the bottom line is it is still just a hybrid and if these early rumors and reports are true that the car is only getting around 40mpg in the city then it is not even a very good hybrid. With that said I am waiting on official reviews before making final judgement but honestly if this car gets anything less than 80mpg I will be quite disappointed given all the hype (and claimed 230mpg)

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6719595/...old/index.html

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Any vehicle that can hook up the engine directly to the wheels, is not an EV. Doesn't matter how long it's for or under what conditions. Spin it all you want but the Volt is a Hybrid.

It's many forms of hybrid and yet none (what would you call a hybrid of a hybrid?). So for the sake of advertising, they can call it an Electric Vehicle and not be lying as far as I'm concerned. It has that capability, and it's that ability that defines the vehicle's character, not it's supplementary features.


But I'm still very curious.....why does it matter?

Either way you cut it to help yourself sleep at night, it still comes out as an infinitely more capable vehicle than it's closest competitors. If a little feature-biased advertising helps them sell cars.....who cares? It's not like this is some immoral scandal cheating people out of their money.

How many toyota commercials have stated how safe and fuel efficient their vehicles are. Sure...they can be. If you don't crash and drive 10mph under the speed limit.

[derklug]

The Volt was originally called a plug-in hybrid, which is probably how the engineers talked about it, but then the marketing department got ahold of it and it became an EV. Now the writers are screaming because GM did something logical to aid performance but, in effect, making the car not a true EV. I agree that the parsing of words is designed more to rain on the Volt's parade and give Nissan ammo for selling it's glorified golf cart.

[Superman09]

Here is my $.02, and I am in a hurry to get back to work so if it doesn't make sense I will edit/add to it later.

Electric motor A drives the car. Electric motor B (run by the gas engine) charges the batteries. Under extreme circumstances and only for a brief amount of time, rather than charge the batteries motor B's electrical current goes straight to motor A. This provides greater efficiencies, and more power, but also allows the Volt to remain "all electric".

Again just my rough understanding of their drive systems, I could be wrong

[FenwickHockey65]

After all is said and done, who cares? I bet the majority of Volt owners couldn't care less what is moving the car as long as it works. Remember how a survey of BMW 3-series owners revealed that a ton of them thought they were driving FWD cars?

The truth is that most consumers are clueless about how their cars work. As long as the Volt delivers 25-50 miles on electricity and 300 miles in extended-range mode, there won't be any complaints.

[Brokinarrow]

Just read a very good explanation of WHY Chevy didn't come out and explain this specific functionality in detail: Patents.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Brokinarrow

Just read a very good explanation of WHY Chevy didn't come out and explain this specific functionality in detail: Patents.

Exactly. Some are now drawing comparisons between this and the Prius PHEV, and if GM had announced details about the Volt's drivetrain prior to it being patented, Toyota could've slipped a little something extra into the Prius PHEV to make it perform just as well as the Volt.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Here is a graphic Motor Trend showing how it all works together:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/e...cks/index.html

As I think through this, I can see exactly why it was done. GM very carefully worded their press release about this, again with the goal of misleading us. There is a mechanical link between the engine and wheels: engine -> generator -> planetary gearset -> wheels. It is not a direct link as the generator is stuck in there compared to how a car normally opperates. But there has to be a mechanical link because of regenerative braking. With regen, the most logical setup would be to have the wheels driving the generator. Well, if you have wheels->planetary->generator and engine->generator ... you've got a mechanical pathway from the engine to the wheels. Now, at some point they realized the potential use of this and figured out a way to implement 'partial mechanical' driving mode to boost efficiency.

From an engineering perspective, its all very clever and they should be applauded for it. But it also goes against what we've been led to believe about the Volt, particularly since they started calling it an EV. I can't believe that the engineers were doing this while their PR and media people had no clue. GM has to be more competent than that.


But you could also drive it without ever plugging it in.

This really depends on how you define a hybrid. If you call a hybrid a vehicle that is powered, rather directly or indirectly, by two different sources (gas/electric) then the Volt is a hybrid. However, if you believe there must be a direct link between the gasoline engine (without the middleman that the generator is) and the wheels then this is an EV.

I for one do not feel like I've been lied to at all. To me, GM simply added a hybrid "safeguard" to guarantee capability and efficiency. IMO, I'd rather have this safeguard than the pride of knowing I have an EV, defined by very broad criteria I might add, while I'm stranded on the side of the road.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by a_Username

This really depends on how you define a hybrid. If you call a hybrid a vehicle that is powered, rather directly or indirectly, by two different sources (gas/electric) then the Volt is a hybrid. However, if you believe there must be a direct link between the gasoline engine (without the middleman that the generator is) and the wheels then this is an EV.

I for one do not feel like I've been lied to at all. To me, GM simply added a hybrid "safeguard" to guarantee capability and efficiency. IMO, I'd rather have this safeguard than the pride of knowing I have an EV, defined by very broad criteria I might add, while I'm stranded on the side of the road.

There are 2 there are two types of hybrid, series and parallel. If you can run gas only, electric only, or gas and electric you have a parallel hybrid. If you can run electric only, but use the gas engine to power the electric motors, its a series hybrid. Neither system has a maximum or minumum limit on electric only range before using the gas engine. Some parallel hybrids don't have an extra battery, they just use the regular battery under the hood. Meanwhile there are series hybrids that don't have a battery either, the limited storage requirements are taken care of with capacitors. At the other end of the spectrum, you have the plug in Prius and the Volt which can each go for miles and miles electrically, but in theory may never need gasoline. But its still a hybrid drivetrain.

The Volt is a hybrid. Supposedly, it was to be a series hybrid but it looks like it has a parallel capability too. Either way, its a hybrid and not an EV.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

There are 2 there are two types of hybrid, series and parallel. If you can run gas only, electric only, or gas and electric you have a parallel hybrid. If you can run electric only, but use the gas engine to power the electric motors, its a series hybrid. Neither system has a maximum or minumum limit on electric only range before using the gas engine. Some parallel hybrids don't have an extra battery, they just use the regular battery under the hood. Meanwhile there are series hybrids that don't have a battery either, the limited storage requirements are taken care of with capacitors. At the other end of the spectrum, you have the plug in Prius and the Volt which can each go for miles and miles electrically, but in theory may never need gasoline. But its still a hybrid drivetrain.

The Volt is a hybrid. Supposedly, it was to be a series hybrid but it looks like it has a parallel capability too. Either way, its a hybrid and not an EV.

If your definitions are correct, then why did GM call it an EV? But I would like to question that definition of a parallel hybrid. The way you worded it seems as if a car could be gasoline only, i.e. with no other power source besides gasoline, and still be called a parallel hybrid by that definition; this is unless this definition counts the addition of a simple battery found in every car as the other power source.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

It's many forms of hybrid and yet none (what would you call a hybrid of a hybrid?). So for the sake of advertising, they can call it an Electric Vehicle and not be lying as far as I'm concerned. It has that capability, and it's that ability that defines the vehicle's character, not it's supplementary features.


But I'm still very curious.....why does it matter?

Either way you cut it to help yourself sleep at night, it still comes out as an infinitely more capable vehicle than it's closest competitors. If a little feature-biased advertising helps them sell cars.....who cares? It's not like this is some immoral scandal cheating people out of their money.

How many toyota commercials have stated how safe and fuel efficient their vehicles are. Sure...they can be. If you don't crash and drive 10mph under the speed limit.

You sound like you are fine with the ambiguity. Can we not be a tad more honest than Toyota? That's what we are really talking about, not how much better the Volt is with every other Hybrid out there - you're not going to find anyone disagreeing with that point.

If the Volt was a true EV then I should be able to move the "generator" to the trunk, run longer wires to all the original connections and it should work exactly as it does now. Something tells me I can't do that and expect the same performance when traveling over 70 mph.