Does the Z really stand a chance of success?

[2010SSRSM6]

CTS-V is a 4 door luxury sedan. People buy the CTS-V because they can. People will buy the Z for the same reason. The CTS-V is going after the guys that are spending $85k-$125k on M5's, M6's, SL 55 AMG's, etc. They sell it for what they do, because they can. It is a good money maker for GM.

Every year the cost of performance goes up. Every year the cost of basic transportation goes up. A few short years ago I thought $35k was way too much for a car. I didn't even blink when my OTD price on my Camaro was over $44k. I looked at a 2008 GT 500 that was left over on the lot and would have been cheaper than my Camaro was, but I still got the Camaro. That is what GM is banking on.

There will be a market for the Z when it comes out. Are all of us going to be in it? Not likely. I bet they will still sell though. The performance is going to be amazing. Hell the SS is pretty dang good for a $35k car. Imagine what they can do with the same basic car and another $20k worth of goodies. I'm excited and have zero desire to buy one.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by Jayrcr3

I just sold a first generation CTS-V to buy my Camaro. I was a member on the Cadillac forums for a few years, and paid very close attention to what the new CTS-V is capable of. If you need proof that the LSA is capable of serious numbers check out what some of the caddy owners are doing. One member has a daily driven 700RWHP V that has run I believe a 10.32. That's insanely fast for a 4200lb car. It takes very little to get the caddy over 600RWHP. I think GM knows what they're doing with the Z28. If the V is 400lbs heavier you can subtract roughly 4 tenths from the caddy's 1/4 mile time and you will be very close to the Z28's 1/4 times.

Im sure the new HPE/Z28 will weigh in at right around 4000 lbs. (maybe even more if they brace the car similar to the vert). The 100 lbs. = .1 doesn't really hold up as well once those weights start getting up there so high, but it may be possible to see .2 difference.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

Im sure the new HPE/Z28 will weigh in at right around 4000 lbs. (maybe even more if they brace the car similar to the vert). The 100 lbs. = .1 doesn't really hold up as well once those weights start getting up there so high, but it may be possible to see .2 difference.

Based on what I've heard from Pedders over the summer, the car shouldn't need any extra bracing (so long as you don't do something silly like cut the roof off ... )

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by htron50

For G. Sakes man, have you ever heard the rain tapping on the roof while sitting in a Mustang? You can't even hear the person next to you talking. The doors rattle at the end of year 2 like bolts and window tracks are loose. I'm sorry.... but had to say it. (It's true however).

You lose any credibility with most people when you post crap like this. I have 27K on my 2010 GT500, daily drive it on less than perfect roads and it's just as "tight" as the day i bought it. And that's with over 700rwtq putting stress on the stock chassis from time to time and more than a few passes at the local dragstrips.

I think you're still living in the '60's based on your comments, and the things you have noted are things that were prevelant with any manufacturers vehicle's, not just Ford's. I had a 70 Buick Skylark GS whose doors sounded like they had ballbearings in them from the way the windrow track rattles on an uneven surface. The 4th Gen Camaro's were/are notorious for the rattles that develop after just a few miles.

The fact of the matter is, both the Gen5 Camaro and the modern Mustangs are built very well and have improved leaps and bounds over their previous generations. Like someone else said, it does not require magic to build one car to perform better than another regardless of what camp is building the vehicle. What it comes down to is doing so without compromising too much in any one area while still keeping profit margin in an acceptable range for the company.

[htron50]

[QUOTE=garagelogic;2800200]You lose any credibility with most people when you post crap like this. I have 27K on my 2010 GT500, daily drive it on less than perfect roads and it's just as "tight" as the day i bought it. And that's with over 700rwtq putting stress on the stock chassis from time to time and more than a few passes at the local dragstrips.

I think you're still living in the '60's based on your comments,
QUOTE]

FACTs my friend. Sit in one in the rain. A NEW ONE, not an OlD one. Proof awaits. I have done it. Not crap. Sorry if it offends you. Ford is good company. I even own lots of its shares. But, for personal purchase, mustang rattles really bother me. I even considered it until i drove one in the rain! Never!

PS: i do have a 67 goat tho!

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by htron50

FACTs my friend. Sit in one in the rain. A NEW ONE, not an OlD one. Proof awaits. I have done it. Not crap. Sorry if it offends you. Ford is good company. I even own lots of its shares. But, for personal purchase, mustang rattles really bother me. I even considered it until i drove one in the rain! Never!

PS: i do have a 67 goat tho!

What part of I own one and drive it daily did you not comprehend? Obviously, if I drive it year-round in Tennessee, there's a pretty good chance I've driven it in light showers and in driving monsoons. (Remember the Nashville floods? I was driving in that crap all day.) It has no more noise in the cabin from the rain than any other vehicle I have owned, and I've owned a few.

I'm not sure exactly how a "mustang" rattle differs from any other rattle, but according to you there must be a difference. Maybe it's just me, but rattles in any car of any make or model bother me.

And, yeah, I noted the Goat in your avatar. I, too, have a car built in the '60's in the garage. Guess what it is.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

[htron50]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

What part of I own one and drive it daily did you not comprehend? Obviously, if I drive it year-round in Tennessee, there's a pretty good chance I've driven it in light showers and in driving monsoons. (Remember the Nashville floods? I was driving in that crap all day.) It has no more noise in the cabin from the rain than any other vehicle I have owned, and I've owned a few.

I'm not sure exactly how a "mustang" rattle differs from any other rattle, but according to you there must be a difference. Maybe it's just me, but rattles in any car of any make or model bother me.

And, yeah, I noted the Goat in your avatar. I, too, have a car built in the '60's in the garage. Guess what it is.

All I can say is... they may ADD soundproofing to a GT500 or a Super Snake that they don't have in a standard GT. Not sure. I just KNOW that their is a serious echo in the roof. I would have to take off the headliner and ADD sound deadening material. Just my honest observation! Don't get too jacked! Sorry if i disturbed your hornets nest. Didn't mean to do that. I'm very picky on "nitsh$t" details that could have been fixed for pennies and was not. Hey, I have family in Nashville and Cookeville FYI! So be nice!

[Camaro_Corvette]

Originally Posted by LYCAN

I don't know....GM has screwed up before with this. Take for example the C6 ZO6. They absolutely overpriced it.

As compared to what? Consider the competition for the Z06. Consider what the Z06 is actually capable of. Consider the type of car that the Z06 makes mince meat out of, and come back here and say that again. I bet you change your mind. The Z06 is a freak of nature considering what it can, and has done.

[coolman]

I think what everyone is missing hear, is the fact that it doesn't matter if the new what ever camaro will beat the GT500. The SS doesn't show well against the mustang GT if you read most of the mags ,but it has been spanking the mustang in sales ever since its' returned to production. And really, this is where the win is for GM. There are so many people wanting this hi performance camaro that it will be a win win no matter what the performance #'s say. After all it will be by far the most bad ass camaro ever built. I believe there are far more Chevy fanboys with money to burn than ford fanboys.

[lbls1]

The Z could be a success, but I am more worried about the z28 and lsa being overshadowed by existing tuner camaros as opposed to any Ford effort.

Chevy and company has to get this one right. It has to be competitive with the factory gt500 in price and exceed it in performance.

[htron50]

Originally Posted by lbls1

The Z could be a success, but I am more worried about the z28 and lsa being overshadowed by existing tuner camaros as opposed to any Ford effort.

Chevy and company has to get this one right. It has to be competitive with the factory gt500 in price and exceed it in performance.

HUGE COMMENT! The tuners have stolen the aftermarket on this vehicle. And yes, a standard LSA would be overshadowed. But not an LS9!!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by htron50

HUGE COMMENT! The tuners have stolen the aftermarket on this vehicle. And yes, a standard LSA would be overshadowed. But not an LS9!!

But then the customer can say "I can do it for less" with the aftermarket people.

I'd like to know where the LSA got such a bad rap from...it outperformed the LS9 in durability testing.........

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by Apex Chase

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

:fighting0040:

There is zero chance that I want a 'stang.

We'll see how they stack up when the Z gets here. By "here" I mean into my driveway.